Monday, December 7, 2009

Guest Roloff Episode Review by Rap541; Little People, Big World December 7th

Our first guest episode reviewer is Rap541. All opinions and statements made belong solely to the person making them (Rap541).


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Written by Rap541


1st Episode:

So Amy starts by helping Zach make food. It seems to be some ort of chili mac. Bleh… I feel sad for the kids who eat that. I mean ick. Now in fairness, chili mac grosses me out.

Amy is heading off to a charity thing where she will speak for low income housing. She notes how she has become a good public speaker, it makes money, and she is starting to like it. She chides the kids for knowing nothing about being clean. Ironic, that.

She heads off to do tons of stuff in Florida. She goes to Habitat for Humanity. She notes her shyness is related to her size. She worries people sorta automatically look down on her. There’s fun where she does counters for the house. Honestly it’s a little too cutesy contrived for me but I get where they were going.

Amy heads to the golf tournament. She has never played golf. Ehh… I find golf dull but she seems to enjoy being the beginner. She seems to have fun. Good for her. I hate golf. Its a dull game to me.

Amy heads to a an emergency home for kids who need help. She seems at a loss at first but breaks the ice well over prom talk. She seems like a good, warm speaker to kids in trouble. On the other hand, I kinda get the vibe she has no idea what the kids have been through. It’s a bit weird.

Jeremy and Zach head to the bank to get their first checking accounts. Jeremy notes he has no idea what is happening and he has no idea and its “mumbojib”. He and Zach get debit cards which is scary when Jeremy notes he hasn’t ever actually balanced a real check book. Ok. I had a savings account when I was eight and a checking account when I was eleven. This isn’t that hard, and the two big boys… oh wait, realistically the two *children* were actually adults who both confessed they had NO IDEA what was happening as they engaged in a basic life skill that retarded people manage.

Now I know people are going howl…. But let me confess something. I work in the finance industry. I see stupid kids like Jer and Zach who’s parents don’t bother to teach them anything about money get cards every day and when the big boy adults SCREW UP because their parents never bothered teaching them a DAMN thing about managing money, who gets on the phone to bitch and moan? Not the big boys in their big boy panties, but Momma and Daddy and then I have to explain to Momma and Daddy how the Big Boy Babies are in fact ADULTS and have to pay their bills because they are not momma and daddy’s lil babies who are blameless any more. . Folks if you don’t want someone like Rap541 explaining to you in detail how dumb you made your adult children, explain to them how credit cards, debit cards, and checking accounts work. Because really, Jeremy and Zach have been set up to fail by both of their parents and its unpleasant watching the impending doom begin.

Amy heads to “Hannah’s House” which is for homeless pregnant girls and girls with babies. They seems pretty grateful to be there. Amy notes how her problems are a lot less and seems humble. She tries to reassure the young mothers that life is gonna get better. They all actually seem pretty confident

She heads back to the fundraiser- still not sure what this is for - I would be a little miffed if I was expecting advertising, just saying. Amy notes how she is awkward but this is for kids going to college! Still no idea what the name of the charity is.

She sorta yells at people to donate. She nicely plays on football rivalries… It seems to work.

Molly makes weird food. She needed to um… unfreeze it first…..Molly? You need a crockpot. It’s sooo easy in a crockpot, I wasn’t a good cook until I got the crockpot.

Amy does a keynote speech. She notes how proud everyone must be and voice overs how she likes giving back etc. They raised 18k which does seem like a lot. It’s nice to see Amy so self confident.

She heads off to a tat parlor. I think it’s a fake tat she gets, but who am I to know? It’s nice, a bit tribal which is an amusing choic , all things considered.

Amy has souvenirs to show the kids. And shows off her “tat”. The boys seems horrified at mom getting a tat. Then she *wipes* it off and the boys seems very very relieved. Aren’t these the same two who wanted DBU on their butts so they could willfully commit adultery?

99 comments:

Brandon said...

I'm surprised so many people have a problem with the food the Roloffs eat. It's almost the only thing I'm on their side about. ;) I think they eat normal. I might be a little worse than they are or more picky. But they eat normal food. I always see comments that they don't eat enough of this or too much of that. Personal choice people.

I don't understand what is so complicated about getting a bank account. It could be that lady confused them with big words and made it seem a lot more complicated than it is....Money goes in, money goes out...

Rap, Jer is allowed to get a tattoo. Mom is not. To be fair to Zach, I think Jeremy was way more into the DBU butt tattoo than Zach was.

Joan said...

"and its unpleasant watching the impending doom begin."

Don't know about Zach, but I think you'll be wrong about Jeremy. I heard him say on a show that he doesn't like to spend his money. I don't think he will blow it. Jer is like Matt. He knows how to work it. He will use his fame. People will be happy to give him stuff he would otherwise need to buy.

Craw said...

I don't think you need to worry about Jeremy's financial status. LOL.

The bank employee was making it sound more confusing than it needed to be. Jeremy was right to tune her out.

What is with you and your obsession with talking about Jeremy's "big boy panties"? Is this some fantasy you have? ;)

I can't help but notice that you had nothing to say about Jacob's bitchy comments about Molly's cooking.

Rap541 said...

In firness, Joan, personally I hope that both young adults in this family don't have money problems, but frankly Jer saying he doesn't spend his money doesn't jibe with Jeremy owning three cars by the age of eighteen. I also wouldn't call Matt - who admits to having almost financially destroyed the family in the early part of the decade - a particularly great role model.And really, "People will be happy to give him stuff he would otherwise need to buy."

Yeah um, thats called being a bum. And if that's all Jeremy aspires to be, a guy who looks pretty so people just help him out.... I kinda feel bad for him because pretty fades, dumb is forever, and he's not famous enough to live off this show forever.

Craw - sorry but Molly's food was gross. I can't blame Jake for not wanting to put congealed lumps of not quite cooked meat into his mouth. And really, bank employees smile when people like Jer tune them out. Because that customer is going to bring in a LOT of fees that they were warned about but were too busy being cool, tuning stuff out, to realize.

Anonymous said...

Sometimes is hard to watch the Roloff because their really had became a bunch of people sharing a space instead of a family, Matt has no interest in anyone expect Jeremy a self center mediocre, Amy it’s a big fail as a mother and housewife, their house is more than a mess their children cant do anything on their own, Molly and Jacob had created their own “world” as result of the lack of parenting and love, Jacob is having a lot of trouble realizing his family is a mess and he’s by himself, how sad was the episode with Jacob begging for attention from Jeremy, it was so awkward…
I like the first season when you can appreciated the whole family little people conflict, I’m not watching anymore, I really hope things end well for the Roloff because the twins are going no where (no ambition, lack of interest, really dumb) Molly is going to run to college as soon as she can that the reason for her grades, Jacob poor guy I mean he got the worst part he doesn’t get any attention or love he’s a side note in that family…

Anonymous said...

Well, excuse us Rap. Sorry not everybody is as gifted in understanding finances as you. Clearly you are above all.

And also, the word "retarded" is not politically correct anymore. You may be some financial expert that can balance a check book at 2 years old, but you need to learn proper terminology. Maybe all that check book balancing left no time for learning the correct terms for disabilities.

Anonymous said...

I personally LOVED the bored, glazed look that came over Jeremy's face as the acct mgr goes through her check list. I do believe he has perfected the "it looks like I'm listening, but really I'm staring slightly above your left ear" look!!!! Too funny.

Abt Molly's food, I'm from Texas and we eat "pulled pork" here. I thought I heard Molly say as she dumped the pork log into the skillet that this was what this was supposed to be. I could've imagined this, don't know. Didn't look particularly gross to me, just not presented well.

Back to finances, I'm sure Matt's accountant will be helping the boys balance their check books. All this said, this could merely be a precursor to twin antics with atm cards, bouncing checks, etc for future shows. In no shape form or fashion is Matt going to lose "control" of this considering the way he micromanages. In the earlier and some episodes to this day he deals mostly in cash with the kids and Amy. No carte blanche for them with TLC money!!!

I agree Amy's philanthropic work was wayyyyy to contrived. If she was really so interested in ANY of these charities she need only look in her own area. I feel fairly certain these all exist near "34 acre farm".

Jay said...

Rap, I have an honest question. What really is your problem with Jeremy? Honestly, it is okay to not like somebody, or not care for somebody, but you like to destroy Jeremy. Everything he does is either stupid or immature.

I can see where you would not like the kid so much, because of past mistakes, but people do change. When he did those things, he was 15. Who is to say the kid really didn't mature? We aren't actually there inside his mind. A lot of kids make mistakes at that age. Nobody really knows who they are at 15. Jeremy could have totally changed. He may not have changed at all, either.

All I'm saying is I honestly think you should give it a rest. Take it easy, especially the bank stuff. When I got my first account, I was extremely confused also. If you were never introduced to that before, it's confusing. Technically you should be blasting Amy and Matt for not teaching the boys, not Zach and Jeremy.

And honestly, what that lady was explaining was not something a mentally challenged person would understand. Be careful how you put that, also, as it can be offensive to some.

Anonymous said...

Wow, Rap! You using the word "retarded" is almost the same as Jeremy calling people f*gs. Maybe that's why you hate him so much. He reminds you of yourself

Em said...

"I personally LOVED the bored, glazed look that came over Jeremy's face as the acct mgr goes through her check list. I do believe he has perfected the "it looks like I'm listening, but really I'm staring slightly above your left ear" look!!!! Too funny."
======

OMG, you are so right about that. I was thinking that last night but didn't verbalize it to myself. :) As you said, I do believe Jeremy has perfected that look.

Tashapork said...

Rap, I agree with you on the financial education, although I think schools and other media in society should share that responsibility with parents and I often think some parents (not necessarily the Roloffs) don't can't figure out their own finances enough to help their kids. Lack of financial savvy and tuning out the boring stuff is a good part of why we are in a big national financial mess with foreclosures and such. I wish TLC did a better job with that part and brought in someone like Suze Orman to teach them about saving, interest, fees, how to tell if a financial institution is taking advantage of you, but I don't think these kids are ready to learn, they need to fail first which is sad. I also wish Amy or Matt had gone with them to the bank.

Rap541 said...

It's "almost"... but not quite, and you make the distinction for me but there's actually two. Let me help you.

"Retarded" isn't bleeped out by censors anywhere. N*gger, as in "Mike Detjen is pretty sweet, just like a N*gger" would be censored. So would F*g, as in "Not to be a gay bragging F*ggot but I raped their defences.". Retarded, like midget, is actually a term still in use and in fact was not being used in a derogatory fashion. Noting that Jeremy and Zach were having difficulty with a task that retarded people manage isn't... making fun of the retarded people who bank.

Here's the other difference between Jeremy and I. While the word wasn't being used in a derogatory sense, some people are sensitive to it and you seem to saying you are among those who are, and if that's the case, I apologize. Some people are sensitive to it - I take risks in writing and if it genuinely upset you, I'm sorry. That wasn't the intent.

Rap541 said...

Jay - perhaps I should comment how he fabulously handled himself and was impressive? Is that it? I mean, Jeremy admits he had no clue what he was doing with his finances and really thats AWESOME for a 19 year old man with an income. That's incredibly mature and he's a financing wiz as he shows with his intelligent comments. Any father would be proud to hear his adult son refer to getting a checking account as mumbojumbo.

Jay - in case you missed it... I ripped up Jeremy and Zach here and funny, you don't care a bit that I called out both of them as ignorant. I didn't seperate Zach out as being more mature... both were equally lumped into the "parents, don't let your kids be this stupid" diatribe... so why is only Jeremy needing to not hear my opinion? Whats up with that? I tear into both kids... and poor poor jeremy needs a break and maybe a cuddle and pat on the head (as usual)?

What's up with that?

Rap541 said...

Tash unfortunately finances really are something that needs to be taught early - part of why I am horrified at how the 2800 dollar phone bill was handled, part of why I was horrified by how Zach wrecking the van was handled and part of how Jeremy pulled a "Mom you pay for it" at the car registration office horrified me - is because its obvious that the Roloff parents DON'T teach their kids that things cost money and money isn't always easy to get...

I mean sure, it's amusing that Zach and Jeremy basically tuned out the banking talk... but really, they aren't little boys now. They *are* adults and they are responsible for what they are agreeing to... And honestly, we all know if the twins fail, that they'll never be told its their fault not handling their money well. Its one reason child stars tend to end up broke. And I do appreciate your point about parenting, but once you're eighteen, the bank doesn't care if Mom and Dad never taught you a thing.

Melissa said...

did anyone else notice when Amy was in the emergency home for kids making her speech she added something in about never having that "teenage infatuation" when talking about her growing up?

not that its all untrue but its sorta sterotypical

Jay said...

Rap, I used Jeremy's name more because you seem to trash him way more than any other Roloff child. You have to admit, while you did put Zach down too, it was mostly directed towards Jeremy. As I see, most of your posts are. You throw in a couple of insults towards Zach, but again it's mostly Jeremy. It looks as if you really do not like the kid. Am I correct? Or no?

You never really answered my question, however. What is your problem with Jeremy?

Roloffsrule said...

I can't believe they let you review episodes. Such nonsense. The inmates are now running the asylum.

I wasn't surprised to see this anti-Christian crusader let slip an "un-PC" term like 'retarded'. Rap will unleash a torrent of hate upon those who mock the homos, yet has no problem using a derogatory term against the poor unfortunate souls who were born with mental challenges.

Typical behavior of a nutty left wing forumite.

Anonymous said...

Just because the word "retarded" isn't censored does not mean it isn't offensive to those with learning disabilities. In today's society, that word is used mostly for a derogatory comment. You may not have meant it in that way, but that term is not used by many anymore, for that reason.

I've worked with children who have mild to moderate learning disabilities, including those with Downs Syndrome and believe it or not, it hurts them when those words are used. I have had kids with Downs Syndrome approach me crying because somebody called them "retarded". Even they know exactly what it means.

I do, however, appreciate the apology.

Rap541 said...

RR- I merely point out that I found this word "retarded" on Jeremy James Roloff's myspace. Also one of his buddies Mueller referred to Zach as "looking Downy". I trust you're equally affronted?

Anon at 6:50: I'm going to be honest with you - I used the word "retarded" in this review to make a point.

You're offended by it. You think it's hurtful. So does at least one of the "Christian crowd" (I personally doubt Roloffrules motivation actually but lets say it's real)

No one has slapped you verbally for "being too pc". No one, including me, has justified using the term "since it's how people talk, it's how kids talk, don't be so stuffy" etc etc - even though indeed, this word, like midget, is used daily and is pretty typical teen talk. Funny, isn't it? I mean, no one ran to defend me with "it doesn't mean a thing!"

Yet N*gger, F*g, etc etc.... censored words? Are defended when Jeremy James says them. Even though we all know that these words have a hurtful meaning. Funny isn't it? How if its not Jeremy James Roloff,suddenly its not "too pc" and even though my comment using retarded actually uses it in it's legit definition and not as "you retard!", its understood that it can be hurtful....

Little bit of a set up, and I apologize for intentionally inflaming you, Anon, to make a point. But the end result doesn't surprise me at all. Even in this thread there are people making offensive remarks about other groups and I have no doubt they won't apologize as I did. Thanks for helping me prove a point.

I trust some of the anons here riled up over "retarded" do find "homos" equally offensive?

Rap541 said...

Jay - I actually don't have a huge issue with the kid in that I think he's a sheltered, not especially bright or insiteful young man, with few real accomplihements to his name. He's on tv not because of his good looks, or any acting talent or unique ability, but because members of his family are dwarfs.

I mean really, am I being untruthful? Unfair? Yet I assure you that someone here will throw a fit over my saying he's not smart (although he has failed in school and professes to dislik reading) or that he's not talented (although he doesn't appear to excell in a remarkable fashion in anything)and while he is a nice looking guy, that I am suggesting he's not the be all and end all of manhood will invite many protests.

None of that is offensive or overstating. He's nice enough but not that special or impressive.... and people will freak out. I don't like being treated like a piece of dirt because I think an 18 year old isn't the bestest boy at sailing, horseback riding, modeling, being Christian. I think it was Kit who recently pointed out that Jeremy is up on one heck of a pedastal. He drinks, like frankly most kids his age do, BUT JEREMY DOES NOT LIE so everyone who says they have seen him drink get bitched out and name called since Jeremy must only be praised.

Look at the bank incident. You seem to not want it pointed out that he admitted to the camera he didn't understand what was happening. What, should an 18 year old get a cookie for that? Are we all supposed to say "aw, thats cute"? Because really the show isn't going to last forever and I honestly don't think Jeremy will simply be handed a great living since he has a pretty smile.

Jay said...

I agree with you when you say he's sheltered. He is. I just don't think you give him enough credit. I came from a sheltered home also and have turned out fine, or at least I would like to think so.

A lot of the times, kids learn to become independent when they have to be. I'm not simply saying Jeremy. Maybe you are right, maybe he won't amount to anything. But I think that he will eventually grow up, especially once he gets out into the real world.

I do disagree with you where you say he isn't bright. I don't think that is the case. I think he is really bright, but doesn't apply himself. At all. I bet if he actually put some effort into his school work, he would do very well. Kids who can built and work with cars, aren't exactly stupid.

Also, I in no way intended to make my post sound as if I was putting Jeremy on a pedestal, or insulting you. You are entitled to your opinion and that's fine. I'm just curious as to your reasons, which you made clear.

I honestly do not see Jeremy as the next "Jesus" or anything along those lines. I think he is just a lazy and probably spoiled teenage boy. He's really not much different than many others. I also understand your frustrations, believe me, about some of these fans thinking Jeremy is perfect. I without a doubt believe he has lied and probably gotten himself into big trouble. I, however, do not believe that makes him a bad person. People do change, especially when they grow up. I think most teenagers make some pretty big mistakes when they are young. Who doesn't?

Sheri said...

Good evening Jay,

Thank you for calling Rap out. Her hatred of Jeremy James Roloff has been disturbing and alarming to many, not only yourself.

When pressed, Rap resorts to insincere answers. Her answers differ from what we all witness on a daily basis, which is non stop hatred and attempts to degrade Jeremy.

I have written the Spiritswander site both publicly in a comment and privately through email to express my feelings of disappointment and disgust that Rap is given a forum on a weekly basis to attack Jeremy Roloff. Sadly, my pleas to remove Rap the featured role as a reviewer have not been resolved to my satisfaction. It is bad enough that she has not been banned from the blog, it is irresponsible to allow Rap the chance, week after week, to take center stage while she disparages Jeremy.

Since Rap is insincere, I'll attempt to answer your question.

What is Rap's problem with Jeremy? I believe there is more than one answer.

1.) Jeremy is a Christian. Rap hates Christians. Rap denies this, but her posts suggests differently. Jeremy is embraced by the Christian audience who will not abandon him. All the Roloffs are Christians, this is true. Why is Jeremy the target? Only one Roloff son spoke about God in the book Little People, Big Values. Jeremy did so repeatedly. He spoke about his faith in God. He went into detail how God has helped him and has given Jesus glory for all that he has and will happen in his life. The difference between Jeremy and Zach is as follows. When given a chance, Zach chose to publicly online, avoid mentioning God. Jeremy chose to speak about God. He praised God while stating he will be happy with whatever God steers his way. Which Roloff kid would someone (Rap) who hates Christians, chose to attack? Jeremy James Roloff.

2.) Jay, you might not know this, but Rap has admitted to having sexual deviants in her family. I am not putting words into her mouth. I am not slandering Rap. She has stated that her own brother is a homosexual. While Rap attacks Matt and Amy for Jeremy and Zach, as edited on the show, appearing to be over-whelmed by their first experience handling their own accounts, it appears that Rap's own parents failed to teach morality to Rap and her siblings.

Jeremy, as the Christian he is, has made his views on homosexuals clear. This explains Rap's hatred for Jeremy and why she relentlessly disparages the kid. Rap has made it personal. The words Jeremy used about homosexuals and the jokes he told were immature, but as a devoted young Christian, I believe it was Jeremy's way of voicing his repulsion to homosexuals and the homosexual life style. As a Christian that loves Jesus, that is what he is supposed to do. When Christians become mature young adults, they learn to express it in more mature ways. Jeremy's words were the teenage way of standing for the principles in the Bible. I believe Jeremy's views on it are clear. Due to Rap's affections for homosexuals, she has made it her mission to attack Jeremy as much and as vigorously as she can.

Sheri said...

Part 2-

3)Have you also noticed that Rap also takes frequent shots at Matt? I believe Matt has seen Rap's hatchet job on his beloved son Jeremy both on this site and over the years. Matt has said publicly that certain people consistently have it wrong and repeatedly make fools out of themselves. I believe Rap knows Matt was, at least, including Rap in that group. Rap wants revenge on Matt. Thus Rap does what she can to disparage Matt's favorite son any chance she gets.

4) Despite the denials, I believe Rap is jealous of Jeremy Roloff. He has been blessed by God. He has a great life ahead of him. He is already living a great life. He has a good head on his shoulders and happy outlook on life with God in his heart. He is beloved by not only only, his parents and his friends, but by Christians around the world. I suspect Jeremy already has more money in that bank account that Rap was so concerned about, than Rap can accumulate in over a decade. Rap says she is not jealous of Jeremy, a young Christian who is happy with life, has a great relationship with God and his family, who is financially secure and has many talents and skill sets. I say hogwash to Rap not being jealous.

Justin said...

Rap, don't back off because of these Jeremy fans.

I don't think Jeremy is a nice guy. His behavior when he's caught with his friends when it's not being produced by TLC or Matt Roloff isn't that of a "nice kid".

I think he's a prick that like his dad before him, knows how to fake it when he knows there are cameras or a microphone nearby.

You're right about your set up. I saw another blog that proved that.

Blogger slammed Jeremy for his slurs. Some people defend with the same old excuses. The blogger then did a set up post using all the same element in all the excuses for Jeremy (just friends joking, no people of that group in the room, too PC etc etc). People didn't like it very much when it was at the expense of the Roloffs.

http://universaluprising.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/matt-amy-zach-jacob-molly-and-jeremy-roloff-the-monday-night-midgets/

Roloffsrule said...

Here here Sheri {applauds}

You have shone light on what motivates this person's pro homo agenda.

Jeremy and his friends are just following God's will by mocking the sodomites.

Unless the sodomites embrace a transformational ministry, they will forever be damned to hell. Rap should contact http://www.lovewonout.com/ to save her brother's soul.

Christine said...

Imo, Jeremy is not that nice of a person. I've never seen him do anything completely unselfish or give regard to someone's feelings over his own.

Rap541 said...

Jay - and look - Sheri proves my point. :)

Complete with stating something I personally have never seen on the show, that Jeremy speaks about God in the book Little People Big Value. Having talked to someone associate with the writing of said book, I know it was ghost written but lets assume Jeremy did speak of his love of God. He also spoke how he doesn't drink as it doesn't please God and neither do his friends. Now, we know thats a lie. Jeremy drinks, so do his friends (I assume we're not going to deny the late Adam Garland was indeed Jeremy's friend and was indeed someone with a substance abuse issue) But as soon as this post is visible, Sheri will insist Jeremy On The Mount wasn't boozing it up across Europe this summer and that he hasn't ever touched a drink in the US despite evidence and his own words on his myspace.

Also note that having a gay brother apparently in Christian eyes taints my entire family. Sheri, should we as Christians have my brother executed? In the church?

Money wise, hehe, I am certainly blessed. Ironically I just got done Christmas shopping, making sure my nieces and nephews have a nice holiday despite my sister not being able to work. Yet I am "justjealous". Jealous of a nineteen year old who can't do anything without a helper and who according to his fans seems to be incredibly oversensitive and emotional about criticism. Poor widdle Jeremy, a child needing protection at almost 20.

Justin, yeah, funny how word hurt even when they aren't used with that intent when its not Jeremy James Roloff White Christian mocking the n*ggers and f*gs. It's delightflly hypocritical. :)

NJC said...

Well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black Sheri. I'll take Raps posts over the hate you spew on here anyday. At least she makes an effort to back up what she says with facts. You're a one trick pony. Everything that ever happens that you don't like is part of a grand conspiracy to bring down Christianity. And because of that you feel you have the right to trash anyone who doesn't walk lock step with you.

Take a hint. The reason you're having no luck getting Rap banned from here is because you have no reality based reason for it to happen. Rap may often times be confrontational, or extra hard on Jeremy but no more confrontational than some like you and the others you cheerlead on here. And come on, for as skewed against Jeremy as some of Raps reviews are, Broken Arrow more than makes up for it with her Jeremy centric ones. I mean as someone else said, who knew you could get so much info about Jeremy out of a show he was on for about three minutes.

You won't believe this because it doesn't fit into your world view, but I'm not challenging you because you're Christian. I admire people who have strong faith in their lives. I'm sure in many ways you're a lovely person. It's just that on here you too often use your faith as a weapon and an excuse to be mean, and I think that's worthy of being challenged.

Jay said...

Sheri, I'm Christian and have no problem with homosexuality. I think it is a personal choice. I am not homosexual, but if some people are, I don't think they can help that. It isn't something they can choose.

Being Christian is about loving God, not hating others. If you really knew God, or believed in his words, you wouldn't be putting down homosexual people. God loves everybody. Isn't that what God is all about? Love?

If you truly believe the things you said, I think you may be brainwashed. What is better, having love between two men, or two woman, or hate?

Anne B said...

Jay, Sheri is correct about homosexuality, God and the Roloffs. I believe some Christians pander on boards like this to be accepted by gays or to be cool or hip.

If you are a Christian, homosexuality is wrong. You cannot support it. It mocks God and should not be in society. As a Christian, I don't throw my hands in the air and say oh well. It's not what God planned for the world or human sexuality. A Christian cannot think anything other than that.

I'm not surprised at the Roloffs feelings towards homosexuality. They are Christians. I wouldn't expect anything else. I understand there are politics to play because they are in the public eye. Networks don't want to offend any group of people. If you watch and listen closely to what the Roloffs do and don't say, have and have not done, they have the same feelings towards homosexuality as Sheri, myself and millions of other proud Christians. The article on here about the Roloffs church is not a lie.

I don't hate homosexuals. I don't think the Roloffs hate homosexuals. In a PC society, homosexuals and those that support it promote the thinking that if you believe in Jesus Christ and oppose homosexuality, you hate homosexuals. I don't want drug use in society either. I think Sheri explained Jeremy's stance on homosexuality very well. He was immature, however, you're fooling yourself if you ignore that it is rooted in their (Jeremy and his pals) opposition to homosexuality because of their Christian beliefs.

Parker said...

why is Jeremy's drinking brought up in basically EVERY post here? yes i understand that he said that his friends and him don't drink and do things like that but come on...thats what teenagers do!1

obviously not everyone but get over it! Its soo annoying always seeing that come up, seriously get some new lines

Rap541 said...

Parker - it gets brought up mostly because there's a contigent of fans who will call you a liar merely because Jeremy has said he does not drink and is a Christian. People who have witnessed Jeremy drinking, or who point to Jeremy's own myspace comments where he says he drank... are *liars*. Jeremy is a Christian and therefore he always speaks truth and no matter what the evidence if Jeremy Christ says he doesn't drink, you're lying even if you see him swig the stuff.

Jeremy says he doesn't and Christians NEVER lie so thats a liscense for his fans to treat people in an insulting manner.

In other words,it wouldn' be that big of a deal to anyone if his fans didn't raise a stink with "YOU HATERS LIE JEREMY IS A CHRISTIAN AND HE SAYS HE DOESN'T DRINK SO YOU ARE LYING ABOUT THIS WONDERFUL CHRISTIAN BECAUSE YOU ARE JEALOUS".

My moms pastor is saddened by how some people here inteprete what being a Christian means.

Anne - a little word to the wise. If we interprete Leviticus - the part of the Bible that is anti-homosexual strictly, God pretty clearly states there is no place in his house for those born with blemishes like dwarfism. Do you believe in that part of God's word too?

Rap541 said...

Jay - and I do have to apologize to you directly, because I did interprete your initial post as an attack.

I think the concern I have for Jeremy, and frankly some of my annoyance is that yes, he's a bit spoiled and lazy, but he has the capacity to well and be more than a pretty side of beef, and his parents and his fans shelter him from every tiny mistake and praise him for things that any reasonable person would expect a young man to do.

I mean really, I don't always agree with Amy's parenting, but what has she always pushed? You need to study and get good grades and you need to push yourself if you want to play soccer. Did Jeremy listen? Apparently not and now Amy is the monster who dared say he didn't work enough.... It gets old.

Jay said...

How exactly does homosexuality mock God? Who ever said that? If you truly think about it. There are so many religions, which one is ACTUALLY true? Really think. God doesn't care about organized religion.

I suggest you read a book that Molly Roloff has read. It's called the Shack. I honestly believe it will change your outlook on life. The Roloff's have read it, so maybe you are wrong about their beliefs.

Jay said...

Rap, no need to apologize. I agree with you when you say that people are too protective over Jeremy. They are, no doubt about it.

Lisa said...

Jay, I can tell you that the Roloffs do not hate anyone. However, if you know the Roloffs as I do, their views on homosexuality are clear. Contrary to what some people believe and I do understand their reasons, the Roloffs don't hide their beliefs regarding homosexuality. There are politics involved when it is a business such as television show with millions of dollars at stake for many people (I'm not referring to the Roloffs).

Molly is a bright girl who enjoys reading, but let me assure you, Molly's opinion of homosexuality is the same as Jeremy's opinion of homosexuality which is the same as Amy's opinion of homosexuality which is the same as their Church.

One thing I would like to make clear. The Roloffs do love God dearly. They are very proud of their religion and of their beliefs, however they don't force their beliefs on others.

I don't think I'm saying anything I shouldn't by providing an example. If you watch the show, you might know Sarah E.? You might know her as Jeremy's friend (those of us around here know Sarah as her mother's daughter). When Sarah decided that she did not believe in God, that she was an atheist, Amy did not treat her any differently. Sarah and Amy, Sarah and Jeremy are very close. The Roloffs don't shun people because they don't believe as the Roloffs do.

However, they are confident in their own beliefs. As it pertains to homosexuality, they don't support it and they don't believe it is right.

I do take offense to their beliefs being used against them, as they somehow have something to be ashamed about because they don't approve of homosexuality.

Diane said...

Jay, I've never read that book you said Molly read, but I did see Molly's Myspace page back when it was public and she answered survey questions. One of the questions was about gay marriage. Molly's answer was "Ew". If you ever saw their pages or their friends pages, they are very anti gay and I'm not just talking Jeremy casually saying "f*g".

Diane said...

Lisa, I think the reason why Jeremy and Sarah are still friends is because Sarah is still in love with him.

Jay said...

I highly suggest you read this book.

Kit said...

"If you are a Christian, homosexuality is wrong...A Christian cannot think anything other than that."

Wow. Just...wow. Glad we cleared that up for the millions of devoted Christians who DIDN'T think that until you explained it for them. They will be so relieved that you have told them what to think and believe. Especially the Episcopalian church, which has ordained gay priests and bishops.

"I do take offense to their beliefs being used against them, as they somehow have something to be ashamed about because they don't approve of homosexuality."

I take offense to a "Christian" using derogatory, insulting language to describe people he doesn't approve of. The Roloffs don't have to love or accept homosexuals, but do you think Jesus would approve of using the terms f*gs and q***rs? Really? And don't give me the "it was a private conversation" or "they were just boys" because a true Christian would never use language like that in ANY situation. They SHOULD be ashamed of the language.

I also take offense to people who try to define Christianity for everyone else according to their narrow interpretation, conveniently ignoring the parts of the Bible that don't quite fit their parameters. Leviticus 21:18 "No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed..." Guess it's a good thing Matt, Amy or Zach have never been called to the ministry.

And that's all the time and ire I will waste on this topic. You stopped reading after the first paragraph, but maybe someone will read this post and actually think about it. We are all God's children, and as I've so OFTEN heard it said, "God doesn't make mistakes." Well, yes or no?

FB said...

Jay - Sorry but you're mistaken about the Roloffs. I know them. They 100% oppose homosexuality. I don't know every book Molly has ever read, but I know they oppose homosexuality. You don't need to believe me but it is the truth.

Diane said...

Jay, I've never read that book, but I think I will take you up on your suggest.

Curious, how do you know Molly has read that book? Did you see it on one of the fake accounts (there is a fake twitter Molly that has fooled a lot of people that posts stuff like that).

Regardless, like others before me have said. The Roloffs think being gay is wrong and gross. Molly did in fact say "Ew" to the gay marriage question.

Even if she has read the book you're talking about, I know Athiests who have read every religious book in the world. That doesn't represent their views on religion.

Rap541 said...

Lisa, I mean this with no disrespect.

You are amoung a long line of Roloff friends who post a first name and state how the Roloffs agree with right wing views....and no offense but I can easily follow up this post with a post by "Annalise" where Annalise states she knows the Roloffs and they agree with whatever political agenda the Roloffs believe in.

I mean really, "Lisa" - there's a reason I always disqualify my views with the reality I don't care enough about reality show folks to invite you all into my personal life - but for the same reason that no one should blindly accept that *I* know know the Roloffs... why should anyone believe "Lisa"?

After all... the Roloffs aren't proud enough of their views on gays to risk the money by saying "We don't think homosexuality is ok" but their friends who are never willing to share real identies are willing to say it FOR the Roloffs....

All I have to do is sign a post with "Lisa" and say the Roloffs hate queers.... and I too will be accepted in this forum as someone who personally knows the Roloffs. Think about it...

Diane said...

Kit, I'm not Christian, so obviously I think people like Sheri and Anne B (and the Roloffs and their friends) are wrong.

I'm not defending them, but their views are the same as most Christians I know. Look at the news. There are people like them every day. How many millions of people voted down gay marriage in California. Christian organizations? I think they're right when they say most Christians are against gays.

There are some exceptions like Jen Montzingo because I think she became friend with gay people when she got involved with theater and had a part in a play. But most Christians are against gays and gay rights unless they have some personal experience with a friend or family member that changes their beliefs.

Rap541 said...

Kit - your comment is made of win. Anyone who hates F7gs because the Bible says so should look at Leviticus and seriously ask themselves about dwarfs. Because... if we strictly interprete the bible and it IS god's word... Matt, Amy and Zach really aren't eligable to be Christian.

Jay said...

Diane, it can be seen in an episode that was aired a couple of weeks ago. The one about Jacob's birthday. When Amy is teasing Jake about having a girly voice, Molly is on the couch reading it. It is called The Shack by William P. Young. Incredible book.

Jay said...

It isn't necessarily a religious book, however, it is about God. It has a very clever story that really makes you stop and think.

Lisa said...

Rap, by all means, don't believe me. It's no skin off my nose if you want to believe that the Roloffs support homosexuality. I know otherwise, however, you are welcome to hold your (incorrect) opinion.

Greg said...

Rap: I usually agree with almost everything you write, and I get your skepticism about people claiming to be friends with the Roloffs, but in this case I totally believe everything Lisa has said to be accurate.

If you've seen and know just a little about the Roloffs off camera and their friends, their religious and political beliefs become very clear.

Personally, if I said the Roloffs support gay rights, I might as well say "Jeremy doesn't drink"....I think they're both in the same realm of being ridiculous because it's so far from the truth.

Like someone else said, the link Spirits had about the Roloffs Church and believing that gay people need to be cured was the truth. The Roloffs go to a church where they don't believe what is promoted there? No...

Same with Amy linking Focus on the Family on her website? She had no idea what Focus on the Family represents? Come on. She knows. I would never link Focus on the Family.

Almost all of the Roloffs friends are very vocal in being against gay rights, but the Roloffs aren't?

Plus I've heard a few things, conversations people have had with some of Jeremy's friends. Trust me (but you don't have to :), what Lisa says about the Roloffs views about gay people is true. The Roloffs are definitely "gay is wrong because the Bible says so" people. They are. I don't know how they justify ignoring Levitcus 21:18 as Kit posted, but they do.

I think the Roloffs don't come out and say it because they want the money generated from "left wing tree hugging homos" who are fooled.

Lynn said...

Kit (I could ask the same question to Jay), forgive me if this sounds offensive. I am just curious. Do you consider yourself a Christian?

I do and I agree, more or less, with what Sheri posted. Being a Christian means believing the Bible is the word of God. I don't understand how you can call yourself a Christian (if you do) and not believe the Bible. Please explain. Please don't explain by asking questions, please explain how you consider yourself Christian while not believing what is written in the Bible. Thank you.

Kit said...

Sorry, Lynn, I have no need to explain or defend my beliefs, because I'm not the subject of a tv reality show, and I don't publish books or websites asserting a specific lifestyle or point of view for the world to see (and for me to earn money from).

You can agree with Sheri all you want. I have no problem with people who state their beliefs. I do have a problem with people who espouse a belief in the tenets of Christianity while using and encouraging the use of language that I believe Jesus would find foul and degrading. Something else the Bible mentions, what was it? Oh, yes, "Love thy neighbor as thyself."

I'm also amused every time someone wants to tell me the Bible says homosexuality is wrong, but then blithely ignores all the other things the Bible says are wrong, or that the Bible commands us to do. You can explain to me how you are able to pick and choose which parts of the Bible you believe and which parts you ignore, if you like. I'll listen politely.

WWJD? Oh, sorry, that was a question, wasn't it? Oh, dangit, that was another question, Gosh, I'm SO bad at remembering what I'm commanded to do.

Roloffsrule said...

Silly forumites. The Roloffs are not supporters of the pro homo agenda. They, like God, believe it is an abomination. Molly knows this is true that's why she reacted with an 'eww'. She knows it is sick and disgusting.

Anyone here who professes to be a Christian but supports this disgusting behavior is not a true Christian. God will deal with these false prophets on Judgement Day.

Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. Read your Bible.

Rap541 said...

Greg - as it happens, I strongly suspect Lisa is telling the truth myself... I just find it increasingly interesting that the Roloffs themselves won't proudly state their views on homosexuality... and yet people who post essentially anonymously say "I know the Roloffs and they believe x,y,and z..." but a) there's really no way to verify who these "friends" are and b) we're still left with people who aren't proud to say "My name is Lisa Smith, I know the Roloffs and they share my views on homosexuality".

I mean technically, for all anyone knows, I am "Lisa". But to be more clear about the point here - the Roloffs aren't willing to state their beliefs for the record because queer money still spends and they don't want to lose money over a moral stand. Thats why the "friends" never give enough info - they don't want to end the gravy train either.

Which says a great deal about what the Roloffs believe - because if you dangle a dollar, they just don't feel all that strongly about gays at all, now do they?

Ray said...

Roloffsrule, I am sick and tired of hearing Christians call homosexuality an "abomination". You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, but I believe that you are misguided.

Have you met anyone that is gay? If the answer is no, I suggest you try to. They are not "sinful" or "sick and disgusting" as you believe they are. Every gay person I have met has been an upstanding citizen, trying to live a life that is as normal as anyone else's. They simply are attracted to someone of the same sex. I count several as good friends of mine. It is offensive to be told that I am not a "true" Christian because I believe that gays should be given the same basic rights as anyone else. When I open the Bible, I read verses about love and compassion, not hatred and condemnation.

Jay said...

Roloffsrule, can you please point out a bible passage to me that says Gay people are bad? Im being completely honest, I have never seen one.

You also do know that the bible was written years and years and years and years ago. Do you honestly mean to tell me that God doesn't approve of something HE MADE? God said not to judge, or you will be judged. Homosexuals apply to that rule.

Roloffsrule, your opinion and others that believe it also, are what is wrong with the world today.

Peace and love people. That is what it's about. Who gives a poop about anything thing else? Love each other and that should be all that matters. Love. Because honestly if everybody loved each other, gay or not, the world would be a MUCH better place. Much.

I support gay marriage, however, I am not gay. Do you mean to tell me that I'm going to hell?
I cannot wait for the day that everybody goes to Heaven and they realize they were 100% wrong .

Tashapork said...

Jay I agree with what you are saying.

Roloffsrule said...

1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"

Read your Bible Jay.

Lynn said...

Kit, I apologize if you thought my question was an attack. It was not. I simply don't understand how people who identify themselves as Christian can ignore the Bible or attempt to discredit it. I would expect that from Atheists, not from Christians.

Roloffsrule, thank you. You beat me to the punch with the verse. I don't think some people that are posting do read the Bible.

Rap541 said...

But what about the passages in Leviticus that clearly state God doesn't want dwarfs (and other blemished people) in th temple? Its in the Bible, if you don't believe *that* then... are you also not a Christian?

I assume all real Christians who believe the Bible is the word of God keep kosher, and segragate their women during their menses? Lynn? You're a woman and a Christian, correct? You don't go to church during your period do you? Because the word of God says thats unclean.

Jay said...

I do not read the Bible, because I do not believe that all of that was written by God. If it was, God isn't as great as people make him out to be.

Sorry, but that is total crap. Once again, Roloffsrule, your thoughts like that make this world a disgusting place.

You think in 2009, we would be past those ridiculous thoughts.

Sheri said...

I don't know what else there is left for me to say that hasn't been said by Anne, Roloffsrule and Lynn.

Jay, you began by stating that you were a Christian. You have proceeded to condone homosexuality, you implied that God does not care about Christianity, you appeared oblivious by asking and then receiving passages from the Bible which condemn homosexuality. You then ended by saying you do not read the Bible. You then conclude that people who believe what the Bible teaches are what is wrong with the world. I am not putting words in your mouth. This is what you said.

I've never met a Christian that who doesn't read the Bible.

Some of your statements are very insulting to Christians everywhere. Since this is about the Roloffs and yoy began by defending Jeremy, I'll remind you that they are Christian and by insulting the Bible you are insulting the beliefs of the Roloffs.

Roloffsrule said...

Following the righteous path isn't always easy Jay. The pseudo-Christians like yourself want to pander to the sodomites yet still be in God's good graces. Silly Jay can't have it both ways.

God will strike down the deviant homos as He did the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah. Those who stand in the way will be collateral damage.

The Roloffs are a good Christian family who know this. They will never pander to the sodomites and sodomite-lovers.

Sheri said...

"The Roloffs are a good Christian family who know this. They will never pander to the sodomites and sodomite-lovers."

Roloffsrule - Well said. That's one of the many reasons why I respect about Matt and Jeremy. When the gays were demanding apologies from Jeremy, it would have been easy for Matt to insist Jeremy publicly apologize. I have the belief that it will be a cold day in hell before Matt ever allows his son Jeremy to bow down and say he's sorry to a bunch of over sensitive homosexuals upset because Jeremy rejects them.

Rap541 said...

Sheri - roloffrules - Anne -what about the part in Levitcus where God clearly states that dwarfs are unclean?

I mean... you three sure aren't saying anything about that, and its in God's holy word. I notice none of you are willing to discuss the serious dietary and social restrictions that following the Bible literally puts you under. :)

Why, Sheri - don't you believe the parts of the Bible that outline how you must keep a kosher kitchen? And what about that passage in *the Bible* where God gives his opinion on dwarfs?

Have anything to say, any of you? Or do you pick and choose the laws of God that you want to follow? My bet is the latter.

Btw SHeri - "I have the belief that it will be a cold day in hell before Matt ever allows his son Jeremy to bow down and say he's sorry to a bunch of over sensitive homosexuals upset because Jeremy rejects them."

I realize that it wasn't just gays, right? O you also feel the Bible and God give Jeremy the god blessed right to hate on blacks, mexicans, Jews, and the mentally challenged? Since Matt didn't make Jer apologize to those folks either, for Jeremy's hateful remarks, I assume you're fine with the racism as well? Where in the Bible is it ok to hate on Mexicans and African Americans? You're the Christian - prove God says "beaner" and "n-word" are morally justified.

*and please don't argue "it was just wassup use" it wasn't, the terms were being used in the derogatory sense when Jeremy was refering to Mexico and to his beloved father figure "Pretty sweet just like an n-word" Mike.

Rap541 said...

With some reflection, I really have to ask.... Do some of the Christians here ever actually read the Bible? I don't mean that meanly, by the way. I have a Christian friend who checked out this site - and when I say Christian, I mean a)he prays at lunch with the Bible open and b)he does believe homosexuality is wrong.

With that said, he's horrified at some of the statements here. He put it to me like this - paraphrasing a little bit:

"God wants us to follow his laws, of course. But homosexuals are sinners, and we are supposed to love the sinner not the sin. Why would a gay person *want* to renounce their sin when people calling themselves followers of Christ treat them so badly? Mocking the fallen only hardens their hearts against Christ. Telling them that God hates them because of what they do... why would they even try to be forgiven when they are already hated? Why would they want to join a group of people following Christ when Christ's followers brag about their hatred and that God approves of their hatred? God does not. God loves those sinners, and would welcome them if they chose to return, and God wants his followers to encourage them to return, not fling stones at them. Our role is to help bring them back to God's light, and calling them f*gs and allowing teenagers to act this way reinforces all the wrong things. God is not delighted when his followers drive away others. It is not their place to judge who can follow God, thats abrogating God's will. He is the one to judge who is worthy and they should understand that the person they name call is their brother, a brother fallen away in sin, who they should, if they care about his soul, treat gently and pray for."

He went on about various parables, and ended the conversation with how he intended to pray for the souls of all involved. Including the gays, who live a lifestyle he doesn't approve of.

Really, the tone I get, and this is a guy who is pretty religious and devout, is that God doesn't want his follower to kick the unbelievers down, he wants them to encourage them to accept God. Have those of you who are "Jeremy is a Christian and he has the rigth to call the f*gs whatever since they are godless sodomites" stopped and considered how that hate you cheerfully endorse affects his soul?

Because that is what saddened my Christian friend so deeply.

Anon said...

Since when was not hurling ugly racist words "pandering" and not "common courtesy"?

Jay said...

Have fun going to Hell.

Jay said...

Too bad you can't answer why it says that dwarfs should also be rejected in the bible. Funny you don't comment on that one.

I love crazies like you that use the words of the bible just to get what YOU want out of it. Yeah, you are a real christian....

Kit said...

To each his/her own. Enjoy your hatred - may it nourish you and keep you warm.

As for Molly's "ew" over gay sex? Hope she never finds out that a lot of heteros enjoy the same things. Especially, it seems, some of the most devout Christians (Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, Ted Haggard, Tony Alamo, etc., etc., etc.).

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

God bless. I'm done posting on this subject, because I think everything's been said.

Diane said...

"As for Molly's "ew" over gay sex?"

Kit, just for the record, Molly's "ew" wasn't over a question about gay sex. It was her answer to how do you feel about gay marriage?

There's a difference. If I was asked any question about sex between other people, gay or straight, I might answer "ew" too. But being asked her thoughts on gay marriage and answering "Ew" says a lot. That all follows the line of thinking that people like Sheri say the Roloffs believe, what most of their Faith Bible friends have written online and the same type of attitudes that Focus On The Family and the Harvest Community Church that the Roloffs went to promote.

Expressed said...

This discussion has been enlightening for me because I think that some people would be very shocked to find out just how hard core the Roloffs religious and politic views are. I think a lot of Chrisitans know that and that's why the Roloffs are supported well by other Christians. I'm just surprised that people on the other side don't see that.

You would have to ignore a lot of signs and hardcore evidence to believe the Roloffs don't have hardcore "Religious right" beliefs.

Like someone else said, I'm sure the Roloffs don't mind because the "Left Wing" fans' money helps pay for the mansion and the toys just as good as their fellow Christians, haha :)

Julia said...

Rap541,

As it happens, I agree with your Christian friend. I am aware that there are Christians on here and many in society who disagree and take it further. *I* have no reason to believe that the Roloffs differ from your friend, which is also what I believe.

I believe the problem arises when Christians are labeled "homophobic", "ignorant", "bigoted" and hateful because they don't support gay marriage and believe they are straying from what God wants (as your friend stated - paraphrased).

I haven't seen anything out of the Roloffs that has made me suspect that the Roloffs don't agree with your friends feelings towards gay people.

What Jeremy said was wrong and immature. However when he was talking that way with his friends (doesn't make it right), I don't believe he was intending to drive gay people away from God. That said, I would have liked to have seen Jeremy apologize, but that is for the Roloffs and God to decide whether they handled it the best they could. It's not for me to judge.

Ultimately, they have to face the consequences for it which leads to the speculation that their lack of an apology means something deeper about their feelings.

Rap541 said...

Expressed - Personally I just don't like the little dance the Roloffs do for diversity coupled with all of their buddies insisting how they *really* are.... with of course, no one being willing to commit.

The Roloffs *aren't* proudly stating their religious views because they understand that it would affect the money. The money is more important than their religious beliefs. I am positive if someone put a camera in front of Matt or Amy or Jeremy, Zach, Molly, Jake... and asked "Do you believe homosexuality is against God?" - the answer would not be a first "Yes!" but would most likely be a lot of waffling about diversity and how they want to be private.

Because frankly, yes, it would affect the bottom line and money coming in means Matt isn't saying "Yup we hate queers like the Bible says".

Which, sad to say, says a great deal about how the Roloffs are fair weather friends to their own religion. Its very easy to be proud Christians and happily anti-gay when you're surrounded by your friends who all share your beliefs. But when there's a chance that being proud and speaking your mind about your religious affects your pocket... The Roloffs shush. Their friends speak for them... but the friends shush over proudly connecting their comments and views directly to the Roloffs.

If you dangle a dollar, and someone decides its wiser to take the dollar than commit to their strongly held beliefs... then those beliefs clearly weren't all that strongly felt to begin with.

Christine said...

Expressed, since I'm not Christian I disagree with your overall opinion, but agree with what you said about the Roloffs (if that made any sense ;))

The difference is some fans just stay away and go by what is on the tv show or what they say on Oprah or widely watched programs. People like us who take the time to find out more about them see the truth. The Roloffs don't support gay people and are very right wring. I have absoultely no doubt that I'm speaking the truth when I say that.

I remember Zach once listing a teacher at Faith Bible as his hero, Mr. Bowen. Another Faith student then listed their favorite quote. It was by Mr. Bowen. It read "They say the President Bush's approval rating is very low. There was a time when Jesus also had a low approval rating."

I read certain political views into that statement.

Then there is the rest which mostly has been discussed. Amy's fondness for Focus On The Family, their Church and what they preach regarding gay people. There is Ron Roloff writing on the internet that only church going Christians should be allowed to be Americans. The Roloffs writing that they love Fox News. Almost all of their friends having very right wing opinions. There is a large amount of evidence that make their views very clear.

JMO.

Expressed said...

Actually Rap, I don't disagree with you. The Roloffs love money. I agree with you. That's why they don't say it. But my point is that is what they believe. The Roloffs don't talk about their feelings on abortion either and I know they think it's horrible. They don't for the same reason why they don't talk about gay issues.

In fairness to them, that probably does come from TLC. No tv station unless that's the nature of the show, wants their stars alienating possible viewers by talking about issues that divides people.

But I agree with you. The Roloffs will happily let fans have misconceptions about their beliefs if they're going to make money from it. That is a little different than flat out lying. They just don't go out of their way to tell the "left wing liberal" crowd to take a hike and stop watching.

I think it's kind of funny that some never put two and two together. Matt talks about being a salesman that swindles people. He said Jeremy is the same way, able to bs his way through talking to people and saying what people want to hear. They talk about how they school people over business and Matt says he walks over people who don't fight him like Amy does. Matt says all of this. Fans hear him say it. But then they never think that Matt would do that to them or that they're the ones being fed a line from Matt. It's kind of funny. I like it. It's a trait that serves them well :) They're rolling in the money, probably donating some of it to Focus on the Family to oppose gay marriage and some gay people are putting money in the Roloffs pockets by watching the shows, going to the farm, the speeches and buying the DVDs.

Who are the idiots? :)

Rap541 said...

Expressed - it is lying. My objection is calling them fine Christians, when one of the pretty big rules is not to lie and morally its questionable at best to mislead people about one's beliefs for money. More of a philosophical point really - but is Matt, for example, truly being a good Christian if he geniunely and strongly believes homosexuality is wrong... but also is willing to downplay and ignore that view for money?

Is that a good person? A person strong in their beliefs? Frankly if the money was right, I think Matt would endorse just about anything. When was greed and bullying deemed morally right?

Btw - I completely get your point, I am asking in a more philosophical sense - is it ok to sell out your strongly held views for money?

Take my very decent Christian friend - he's not willing to say homosexuality is ok and I am certain he's lost opportunities at left wing businesss because of it. Is Matt morally better for hiding his more offensive views than someone who does stand up for his views and accepts the consequences?

Rap541 said...

Julia - no offense, but if we believe the people who post here who claim to be friends of the Roloffs - the Roloffs endorse the "We are Christian and are proud to hate gays" view.

Sorry - but part of the problem is their silence. As much as I don't like that my Christian friend considers my brother "fallen" - that man does not greet my brother with "we don't like fags and sodomites because we're Christian". He demonstrates, by his kindness and courtesy that he really does love the sinner, despite hating the sin. This isn't the only good christian I know...and it saddens me that a young man who hinks "not to be a gay bragging faggot.." is perfectly acceptable is *praised as a Christian for his hate*.

It also bothers me that people do pick and choose the rules and regs from the Bible to enforce. I don't advocate the hate but... the stuff about dwarfs in the Bible isn't a lie. Why *isn't* that an issue?

Austin said...

Rap, I get what you're saying, but from where I stand, your "good Christian" friend isn't much better than Christians like Sheri, RR, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson/Focus On The Family, etc.

Telling gay people, especially teenagers who are gay that they are sinners and have "fallen" from God do damage that cannot be reversed. That kind of think leads to high school kids who "appear" like smiling happy Christians" who are struggling with God to kill themselves. That is a very real effect that your "Good Christian" friend has.

I suggest everybody watch Jen Montzingo's video with Grey's Anatomy in the title. That's my definition of a "good Christian". Not somebody who would tell a teenager that if they accept the way God made them that they're sinning and will burn in the pits of hell.

I am really curious, Rap. Does your good Christian friend also believe that people with dwarfism are unclean, not welcome in the temple of God and defective? Or does your good Christian friend only latch onto "gay is bad" just the same as the "bad" Christians like Sheri?

Rap541 said...

No, he believes that Jesus dying on the cross absolved the people from having to live by the old testement rules, that the golden rule "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and te Sermon on the Mount override the old testement. Do I agree? No, to be honest, but I don't claim to be Christian. I do know that my pal has never chided me as being part of a "deviant" family as Sheri and RoloffRules have done, and he has welcomed my brother in his home. P. only evangelizes if people like me ask questions. His view is that he can't make people believe by yelling at them about how wrong they are. I think he views homosexuality as bad because he has spent his life being told that it is - but I think he also - in the terms of his faith - understands that he is not the judge. For the record, I have been with him on volunteer projects where people have challenged his views, and he has always managed to not use offensive terms, and he has always treated people with respect regardless of how rude they are.

Being Christian is not a liscense to be rude.

I happen to agree with you on the "fallen" aspect - but my point about my friend P. is that being Christian is not an excuse to run about screaming "I'm christian so I get to hate queers and nigs!" The reality is that this behavior - the namecalling and hate - completely goes against christianity so the tacit approval of Jeremy using nasty words is not actually "his christian right as a christian boy".

If you geniunely consider yourself Christian, then you have to acknowledge that you're judging - something you're not supposed to do - when you say its to hate.

Roloffsrule said...

Silly Rap. Twisting the Bible in a vain attempt to support her sodomite brother.

I assume you are refering to this passage Rap?

Leviticus 21:16-23 — And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to Aaron, saying: ‘No man of your descendants in succeeding generations, who has any defect, may approach to offer the bread of his God. For any man who has a defect shall not approach: a man blind or lame, who has a marred face or any limb too long, a man who has a broken foot or broken hand, or is a hunchback or a dwarf, or a man who has a defect in his eye, or eczema or scab, or is a eunuch. No man of the descendants of Aaron the priest, who has a defect, shall come near to offer the offerings made by fire to the Lord. He has a defect; he shall not come near to offer the bread of his God. He may eat the bread of his God, both the most holy and the holy; only he shall not go near the veil or approach the altar, because he has a defect, lest he profane My sanctuaries; for I the Lord sanctify them.’”

While this passage does treat dwarfism as a physical limitation like blindness or lameness (or even a broken hand), it also shows me that simply being a dwarf has nothing to do with whether one obeys or disobeys God.

The passage here mentions eating the holy bread (or food, depending upon your translation). The priests and Levites were allowed to eat from certain portions of the sacrifices and offerings. This was part of how God used the other tribes to provide for the tribe of Levi, which God had set apart for handling the sacrifices. See Numbers 3:5-13; 18:1-32 & Deuteronomy 18:1-8.

This passage in Leviticus instructed the Israelites that the dwarf descendants of Aaron were still permitted to eat from the sacrifices offered, even though they were not permitted to perform the sacrifices. “He may eat the bread of his God, both the most holy and the holy;” (Lev. 21:22 ). This compares to those Levites who by birth were NOT direct descendants of Aaron and therefore could not perform sacrifices, but were still allowed to eat from these provisions (see again Numbers 18:8-32, especially verses 11 & 12 permitting only the faithful Levites to eat).

There were several reasons a Levi would not have been permitted to perform the sacrifices, and yet still would have been considered a faithful obedient child of God. However, only the “clean” or faithful Levites could eat of God’s provisions for the Levites, and this group included dwarves. It seems to me, therefore, that when evaluating the spiritual condition of a person, God looks at dwarves like anybody else – on the basis of their obedience.

Nice try Rap :)

Rap541 said...

But it does seperate the dwarfs as less, doesn't? Dwarfs who are born to levite families can not participate as whole people, correct?

It's an important distincton to God, correct? That a dwarf can not be equal to a normal person? I personally don't advocate these views, but the Bible does justify viewing dwarfs as less since they aren't as acceptable to God, correct? Obviously God does not smile on dwarfs the way he does on the average height since he *does* make a distinction that dwarfs aren't acceptable (along with some other folks)

You ok with telling that the Roloffs that? And do you keep kosher RR? You're a woman, right? You do seperate yourself from the males in your life during your menstrual cycle? You of course have never eaten pork or shellfish as they are unclean? :)

Nice try RR - you've just agreed that God does think less of dwarfs. :)

I don't think that - but apparently some christians do, which does explain why average height Jer is the Beloved of Christ while twin brother Zach is open game for insults and hate. :)

Roloffsrule said...

"Nice try RR - you've just agreed that God does think less of dwarfs. :)"

That is why it is pointless to argue with you Rap. Your reading comprehension skills are poor at best.

There is a big difference between not being allowed to perform a sacrifice in the temple and being outright told you will not enter Heaven because of your deviant sexual behavior.

So the dwarf Roloffs cannot perform a sacrifice in the temple. They will still be greeted by God's open arms in Paradise. Which is more then I can say for your sodomite brother :)

Rap541 said...

Actually RR - you forget a basic tenant of your faith - all the deviant has to do is geniunely ask forgiveness, and they're in. And dwarfs still are not good enough in God's eyes. Look at the nice ex-gay sodomite who no doubt defiled himself repeatedly. He asked for forgiveness, and he's in the club. :) He could be a priest performing a sacrifice... while dwarfs can't :)

Btw - you do or dont follow God's law concerning diet? After all, it's God's word... why aren't you willing state that per God, the women in your life must segregate themselve during their cycle as "unclean". You do believe God requires that, correct?

I'm pretty darn certain I have seen the Roloffs as Christians defile themselves with pork(forbidden by God per the Bible) and seafood (again forbidden). Why aren't they following God's law? Why are they brazenly violating God's word?

Jay said...

Apparently Roloffrules is God because they are judging who will and will not go to Heaven. Save it please, you are just making a bigger a$$ out of yourself. God is loving you right now, let me tell you.

Rap541 said...

Jay - valid point. God is the who judges, not his followers. It's kind of one of those things he reserves for himself or Himself. Part of a Christian's duty, as I recall, is to bring more into the flock... which makes this "you're gay, God hates you and will never accept you" justification for Christian Boy Wonder Jeremy's abusive and racist language well... completly wrong, and decidely unchristian.

Cheerfully praising a person for driving away people who could potentially be saved? Could someone explain how Jeremy's amusement is more important than Jeremy bringing someone to Christ?

Susan said...

For the record, I know more than a few Christians that stopped watching the Little People, Big World after they found out of Jeremy's behavior off camera.

Rap541 said...

I don't disbelieve you, Susan. And I find it rather sad that people who cite Jeremy as a *good Christian* for mocking and driving people away have nothing to say when it's pointed out that good Christians would make every effort to bring people back to God, and not laugh and say they know who will and won't be welcomed by God.

Seems like a *good* Christian isn't the one who drives people away from salvation, the way Jeremy James does when he basks in the "Jeremy is *christian*! And he's got the right to hate!" praise.

Lauren C said...

Excuse me Rap but you are very rude.

I saw Molly tonight at the TobyMac concert for the Winter Wonder Slam Tour. If you don't know, TobyMac is a great Christian Rapper.

The Roloffs are good Christians. I'm not spreading rumors. I saw Molly there with my own eyes. The Roloffs love Christ and that's the truth. So please stop making a fool out of yourself and keep your mouth closed. Stop talking about the Roloffs and Christ because you don't know anything about either.

Rap541 said...

I know that Jeremy mocks homosexual and is praised for hating them. That happens right here on the board.

You know, and I mean this nicely, has any Roloff, including Molly, ever done anything with their faith *more difficult* than going to a rock concert? Because really if thats what it takes, I can just play my "Shout to the Lord" cd and claim my prize of being an awesome Christian.

As much as I don't particularly like how the Duggars live, at least that TLC family sends the Christian brood to missions where A)they aren't treated as pampered pets on vacation and b) where the kids actually discuss their faith in God.

(and I have never said I wasn't rude, but really if you find me pointing out that Jeremy intentionally driving people away from salvation with racist remarks isn't being a good Christian rude, you may want to reexamine your bible. At last check, saving sinners, and bringing them back thru kindness was a much bigger part of the faith than attending a rap concert.)

Anonymous said...

Uh huh, so very Christlike to call people, "Beaners," "N*ggers," and "F*ggots."

The Roloff's love MONEY, I have my doubts about Christ.

Anonymous said...

Rap is very insulting to every religion. Not just Christians. You would think someone would not allow such controversial, hateful things to be said on a board such as this. But rap gets whatever she wants around here. I think she's a mod or something. She always drags this board into the trash can.

Rap541 said...

Btw, the point being made - since some will act as though it's unclear - going to a Tobymac concert is not a sacrament of the church. Listening to Christian rock does not make one Christian (unless Lauren, you're willing to agree that my listening to "Shout to the Lord" and Amy Grant makes me a good Christian?)

My point has always been this. If the Roloffs love Jesus, hate gays, and consider themselves right wing - and they very well may - they certainly don't say it *themselves*. They aren't "I am a Roloff, I am proud to love Jesus! I think anyone who isn't Christian isn't American!" (except Ron, who proudly locked that lil statement away he was so proud of it), are they? Oh sure all their anonymous friends who refuse to actually give names sure say it for them.... but the Roloffs know it will affect the dollars.

A person who stands up for their beliefs and in this case for Christ should actually *stand up for their beliefs and for Christ*. The Roloffs don't. They take the money and shut up about God, and let their friends defend them.

Honestly there are people dying every day for their beliefs....The Roloffs won't even give up some cash for theirs.

Jocelynn said...

==========
"If the Roloffs love Jesus, hate gays, and consider themselves right wing - and they very well may - they certainly don't say it *themselves*."
==========


Rap,

I agree with a lot of your more even-keeled posts :) I understand that a lot of what you're doing is arguing against what fans of the Roloffs say, but I would like to get back to the Roloffs.

What do you think of the Roloffs and this subject? Ignoring what people defending them say, the Roloffs themselves?

In your quote I put at the top, I think they would leave out "hate gays", but the rest is true.

I don't think the Roloffs, even privately, would say they "hate gays". I don't think that's accurate. I do suspect what a lot of people would consider "anti-gay". I think they are against gay marriage. I think they do believe what their church has promoted about gay people needing to ask God to cure themselves.

I think that attitude creeps into Jeremy's language and mocking and why, in my opinion, Amy and Matt don't consider it that bad and didn't take it seriously. It's hard to consider someone's feelings or consider the impact on them or what it has on society when you don't even view that person as an equal and you think they are need of being cured.

In some ways I think the Roloffs are like a lot of Christians about 'the gay issue'. They would honestly say they don't 'hate' gay people, but there attitudes are very anti-gay and not accepting of gay people.

I was raised Christian, but I'm not now. I'm not gay or lesbian, but I support gay rights and all that. I find the Roloffs attitude or my perception of what it is, to be disappointing. I would have expected their personal experience to have more of an impact on them.

I'm particularly surprised about Amy. When she was younger, she has admitted she gave up hope for a happy future. She didn't think she would find love or be a parent. She feared her kids would be taken from her because she wasn't a "normal" or "traditional" parent. It's disappointing to me that she doesn't recognize that her views are doing those things to people who are gay.

CC said...

Rap541, As for your attack on people who stated that the Bible is the word of God...I will direct you to Corban College.

I believe Jeremy and Zachary Roloff would be attending Corban currently if their grades were better.

Please read Corban's mission statement:

http://www.corban.edu/about/faith/index.html

[[We believe the Bible is the inspired word of God and is inerrant in the original writings (2 Tim. 3:15-17; Ps. 12:6; John 17:17).]]

Are you going to make disparaging comments about a respected learning institute such as Corban College?

Kit said...

About that Bible thing - Here's the thing. If the Bible (in its entirety, Old and New Testament) is "inerrant," then there is no single Christian in the world who can claim to be in compliance with its teachings and commandments, since there is no Christian religion that forbids the eating of shellfish, or requires a kosher diet, or requires mikvahs and ritual purification for women, etc., etc. I think that ground has been covered extensively in previous posts.

Now, if you want to split hairs and say that the Bible's "original writings" are inerrant, but are now subject to the "correct" interpretation and translation, since we no longer know for certain what specific words were meant to convey in the usage and general knowledge of the time in which they were written, then you're saying that we can't say with any certainty what the writers intended us to understand. The centuries of commentary and Biblical research point to the fact that many wise, learned people, Christians and Jews alike, do not all agree on what the Bible "says" to us, inerrant or not.

If you want to say that Christians are only subject to the New Testament, you still have to overcome the same language barriers, plus you have to overcome the many references made by Jesus to Old Testament teachings, such as the Ten Commandments. If the word of Jesus is inerrant, then all Christians should oppose all forms of armed conflict, because "Thou shalt not kill" is pretty unambivalent.

All in all, arguing over the "inerrancy" of the Bible is a rathole, because it still always boils down to how you, as an individual, interpret and believe what the Bible says, and what one person "clearly" understands as the message may differ completely from another's interpretation and belief.

As for Corban College, I would disagree that the twins would be there if their grades were better, based on the "more of the same" comment by Zach, referring to Faith Bible. I got the distinct impression that the last thing they were interested in was more compulsory chapel, restrictive behavior/dress requirements, etc.

Rap541 said...

I would say, Jocelynn, if we went by what we see on the show, and just on the show, we would think the Roloff family was proudly diverse, somewhat Christian, but not in an ostentatious way, and politically middle of the road with frankly Democratic leanings (mostly because of the diversity stance) It's only when you look at the things that are kept off the screen that you get the idea that the Roloffs are right-wing and evangelical. The church with the anti-gay speakers that isn't mentioned by name on the show, the kids behaviors, some of the myspace comments (and not speaking of the racist words actually, but how the adults and teen friends seem to be big Ron Paul fans, also Granpa Ron's public comments) I know these things from digging a little bit, and then the reality that Amy was linking to Focus on the Family also has to be taken into account.

I *think* they are probably quite conservative based on this - and certainly their buddies who can't actually be proven to know then say so - but the reality, to use your example, is that if you just watch the show alone, you would have no reason to think Amy would have a problem with a gay couple raising a child.

But Amy visiting homeless teens (some of whom were gay) is certainly better press ON THE SHOW than Amy supporting a Focus on the Family charity. The first isn't going to turn off the more liberal viewer and stop the money rolling in, and the second might. Likewise any hint that the Roloffs may not be super diverse....

At which point their fans then proclaim how they *know* the Roloffs are right wing etc etc proud to stand up for their beliefs etc etc.... but in fact the Roloffs won't. They intentionally keep things ambigious because there's more popularity and more money in NOT standing up for their faith in every episode.

It's not TLC stopping them. Check out the Duggars - they are allowed to talk about God, homeschooling, keeping the girls dressed modest per their religious beliefs. No one is stopping the Roloffs from publically stating that they are right wing and evangelical and "don't hate gays but don't tolerate or embrace that lifestyle".

Personally I suspect they are right wing, evangelical in a lackadaisical way. I really don't see anyone suggesting that Jeremy and Zach go on mission overseas, and I don't see the Roloffs making any difficult choices due to their faith - they go to church, make sure the kids aren't wearing too much jewelry or listening to devil rock or mixing but really, family dinners are rare, family prayers even rarer....

They certainly aren't rightwing evangelical on the show, and that's why I have a problem with the people claiming to be their friends insisting they get the "rightious Christian" credit for standing tall and proudly being Christian, hating gays (and thats something they do get "credit" for) etc... when in fact they keep their faith on the down low.

And I don't see the Roloffs protesting when they do get called right wing evangelical gay haters... but I do see the friends out testifying how Molly was at a Christian rapper's concert so therefore she has proven her faith by that alone whenever it's suggested they aren't strong in their beliefs.

There's a lot of hypocrisy involved here, in the Roloffs accepting the not so Christian edit and cheerfully accepting the money for it, and in the buddies who can't bear to accept the truth - that the Roloffs aren't proudly declaring their views in order to get that money.

My view is really pretty simple. Plenty of people are willing to stand up for themselves. The Roloffs don't on these topics, and no matter how much "friends" and "fans" insist, it's the Roloffs who need to say these things in order to *laud* them for being so proud and firm and upright about their views.

If the Roloffs are proud to be Christian and don't tolerate gays - this isn't a communist country where they are risking being shot, you know. This is a predominately Christian country. What are they afraid of?

Oh right - losing the money.

Rap541 said...

CC - If you'll look at the origanal Corbin College thread, you'll note I said it was a good school.

I happen to agree with Kit that neither Jeremy or Zach was smiling over dress codes/compulsary chapel etc.

If the Bible is the word of God, you do follow all the rules cited inside correct? I mean you believe it's the word of God, right? So you don't eat shellfish, pork, you do keep a kosher kitchen, you are ok with multiple wives?

Rap541 said...

And I am sure Spirit will be happy to confirm this. I am not a mod here, and I am not allowed to post as I please.

I do notice no one calling for the posters who say "Rap, you're stupid" to be censored. Nor does anyone seem to have a problem with "Jeremy is a Christian and is right to call a fag a fag".

Funny that. :)
How Christians aren't *required* to not be insulting but bless us, the sinners better be perfectly respectful. "You're stupid" - is that Christian now too?

Funny...

Oh wait, it's because Spirit actually allows an *open* forum where everyone is allowed to post.

Anonymous said...

new here but Rap, and others make sense. Why the focus on being a "good christian"? How about being a decent loving human being that doesn't hate, judge, and put down others for being different?

For a family that wishes to be accepted for who they are as people, it is shameful that they don't share the same acceptance with others. It isn't "Godly, Christian, Hindu, Buddist, Jewish, OR Muslim"

As far as the senior Roloffs "only church going christians should be allowed to be Americans"---disgusting comments, Hitler and Hussein had the same darn ideas!!!! How horrid, I will forever think of this family differently. scumbag racists.