Saturday, January 22, 2011

Amy Roloff Answers Question Re: Controversial Topic of Church Curing Gay People

Amy Roloff held her weekly coffee chat Friday January 21st. However, the buzz after her chat was no doubt centered around one question she received. Thanks to all that emailed their opinions and messages.

To set it up for you -- as some people know and as we mentioned in our Holiday item about the Roloffs Christmas activities --


-- The Roloffs and particularly Jeremy, is enthralled with a conservative Church in the Portland area -- a church and whose main speaker - John Mark Comer -- preaches some things that would have to be classified as controversial -- such as calling homosexuality a perversion, homosexuals are broken deep within themselves and they recommend that people struggling with their orientation seek spiritual rehab so they will be cured of being gay and then and only then -- will they be fit to enter the Kingdom of God. It is a part of this video (this issue is addressed at 2:40 and 7:40)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW-9HNG7uPQ&feature=youtu.be


Despite some people that were attempting to dispute what we reported about certain Roloffs support for the speaker John Mark Comer and this church -- we can absolutely, one hundred percent confirm that Jeremy loves this church -- even since we published that item - we have been told by legitimate friends that Jeremy has been recommending the Loveology Series as delivered by John Mark as recently as last week.

It's not the first time that this issue has sparked debate among different factions of Roloff fans. Years ago the church (a different church than the one that Jeremy is enthusiastic about and that the entire Roloff family were spotted at for Christmas Eve service) that viewers of Little People, Big World will recognize as the Church where Mike Detjen's Memorial service was held - invited controversial "ex-gay" speakers that promote the exact same thing that John Mark stated in his sermon.

Then of course, the other things that tie the Roloffs to this subject was Amy's affiliation to the organization Focus On The Family through choosing to link them on her website at one time and of course, Jeremy's use of gay slurs and perceived mocking of gay people online a few years ago.

So debates about that and how it relates to the Amy and Matt being diversity speakers on the subject of tolerance and acceptance always arise -- some Christian fans staunchly support the Roloffs affiliation with those beliefs and others who feel that it undermines the Roloffs validity on the diversity speaking circuit.

That's the overview, that brings us to Amy's coffee chat. You can watch the recording of Amy's chat on her Ustream channel


To lead into it, these would be the relevant parts:

At 10:23 Amy talks about her upcoming speaking engagement:

Amy Roloff = "But I do have a speaking engagement next week that will be held at the Univ of Tenn. Chattanooga . That talk will be about how to really accept yourself and believe about yourself when you are different or have a disability. Really embracing yourself so you can incorporate yourself among the forest. I call it being the individual tree among the forest. Sometimes you can feel like the lone tree even though you have all these people around you, but how do you incorporate how you want people to think about yourself if you haven't done it for yourself already."

At 15:15 Amy invites tough questions (this was a speculated issue this week - whether or not Amy would accept "tough" questions or only wanted "softballs")

Amy Roloff: "Keep giving questions, I have Lisa helping me out, writing the questions out, I will try to get to as many as I can. If you want to throw a ball at me with a tough question, feel free. I figure that my life has pretty much been an open book on LPBW so...unless you ask me what color of underwear I'm wearing...that may be a question that I don't answer, but you know what, throw it at me people. I am here to interact and chit-chat with you."

Then later in the chat, Kyle (who has left comments on our site as well) asks Amy a question. Unfortunately, apparently due to space limitations of the text box on the chat, Kyle submitted his question in 3 parts. It was displayed as (with other chatter questions in between)

Kyle_shaw: OK Tough Question :) You talked about accepting yourself and accepting ppl for who they are...but isn't it true that you, Jeremy and the church you attend believe that gay people are broken and

need to pray to Jesus to be cured? How can you say you speak about acceptance if you think some minorities should NOT accept themselves and pray that they get cured?

How would you feel if I said you shouldn't accept your dwarfism and you should pray to get taller? How would you feel if I said that, but also said I'm a diversity speaker about accepting differences?

At 41:00 of the chat, Amy reads the question aloud - unfortunately she saw the final part of his question first (which alone, probably confused Amy as it sounds like a pure insult without the lead on)

Amy answered: It's funny, a lot of people have asked me what I think about dwarfism and did I ever wish to be taller? There are certain things that I can chance, there are certain things that I can't change, there are certain choices that people make....whether you're a diversity speaker on all sorts of diversity but diversity itself and discrimination itself is about people. I think when we start zeroing in on the specifics of that is maybe when you'll start to forget about a different group or a different culture, a different race, a different lifestyle or something like that.

But I am in support of anyone facing discrimination, facing non-acceptance because ultimately we are people first. We have to belief and faith in individuals with worth and value. We can often get cluttered with all of the other stuff, but I'm grateful that we live in a country where we do have choices...still. Does everyone believe and accept those choices or understand all of those choices that people make or what is happening in their life or who they are? No, they don't.

That's why even with my own kids, even when I go out and speak, even with the show there is still a need to continue to go out there and speak on diversity to continue to keep people's minds open and keep them thinking about how different we are, but as I have often said, even though we are very different, we have a lot more similarites involved.

After taking a question about if Zach is taller than Matt, at 44:00 you can see Amy reading the Kyle's full question. As Amy begins to speak, someone in the background (most likely Lisa Dixon who helps Amy with the chats and her Charity Foundation) says something to Amy to which Amy responds "No, that's fine"

Amy's answer: ...."You know, we speak about diversity, we...this is in answer to Kyle's question...I do speak about diversity.

I do attend a church that is Christian biased, but that is my faith. That doesn't always mean that everyone who attends the church will always agree on every little thing a church will preach about, be about, on their website, but does that necessarily you mean that your throw out the church because of that one thing?

Do you throw out the baby with the bathwater because something is wrong? There is always going to be something that you're not going to like about a faith, a religion, a church, a business, people, their thoughts, 'I like black, you like white', but I'm not worth a person, or my opinions aren't worth anything because I believe in this and you don't?

To me it's about the matter of embracing the opportunities, we do have choice, we do have thoughts, we do have opinions and not everyone is going to agree and accept that, but I will still go back to the basic thing that we are people -- we need to appreciate that we all have choices and we are able to do what we do.

So yeah, I am very...the church is what I go to and my faith is very important to me, just as much as faith or some spirituality of other people. So hopefully that answered a little bit of it."

Other people that were participating in the chat were leaving messages as Amy was talking.
One of them was from a Danielle: "Going to church is about having values and living life fully"

Amy responded to that comment as well: "Danielle says "going to church is about having values and living life fully". You can have values in your life and live life fully and that doesn't mean you can only get it by going to church. People can get that from whatever gives them support and encouragement of whatever spirituality or faith they want to lead their life with. But I think everyone has values and people's values will be different from everyone else...but to me, it's like good and bad, doing the right thing, supporting and believing in each other and appreciating our gifts that we are given because not everyone can be a CEO of a company, there are janitors too, but everyone has worth as people."

And thanks to our readers that sent us the chat text so people that haven't participated can get an idea of what it's like. This is after Kyle's question and as Amy is speaking:

========================

3:29 DanielleGS: you are such an influential person amy!
3:29 DebyTaylor: Hello Amy from Houston Texas
3:29 SarahMKenny: @Lisa...Amy missed the first part of Kyle's question
3:29 maillady333: precisely amy!!!
3:30 markjohnsonn: Do the kids have facebook fan pages??
3:30 stardiana: did you give it to amy please? i would like to chat with her personally?
3:30 dscarrier50: people need to stop looking at the outside & look at the inner person
3:30 kyle_shaw: Please show Amy my first part of my question..
3:30 macal: I saw that zachary is taller then amy and matt
3:30 markjohnsonn: Do the kids have facebook fan pages
3:30 DebyTaylor-1: Hello Amy, do you ever plan on coming to Houston Texas?
3:30 Hurleyhero724: I hope to see your family on t.v. again. I can really relate to Zack, because I am a shy quiet person who has troubble coming out of my shell.
3:30 kyle_shaw: but isn't it true that you, Jeremy and the church you attend believe that gay people are "broken" and need to pray to Jesus to be cured? How can you say you speak about acceptance if you think some mi
3:31 markjohnsonn: Do the kids have facebook fan pages???
3:31 aklmom: Do you ever think about returning to teaching?
3:31 RollTideRollAlabamer: Amy I know you watched the world cup gurl!
3:31 purewolf386: have your kids ever complained about being on tv?
3:31 markjohnsonn: Do the kids have facebook fan pages??
3:31 dscarrier50: Amy don't let it get to you
3:31 RevVigeant: Zack's legs were straightening out by themselves, last I saw
3:32 dscarrier50: Kyle everyone beleives what they do thats their right
3:32 maillady333: you tell him amy!
3:32 markjohnsonn: yeah you tell him
3:32 stardiana: i'm a dwarf myself and like to chat with you. my son is facing the same thing as you and i went through
3:32 dscarrier50: GO Amy
3:32 dscarrier50: :-)
3:32 SarahMKenny: There is no such thing as a perfect church...just a perfect Savior!
3:32 suz01ie: Your awesome Amy. Thank you
3:32 markjohnsonn: Do the kids have facebook fan pages??
3:32 dscarrier50: AMEN sarah
3:32 DebyTaylor-1: I like that Sarah
3:32 markjohnsonn: Do the kids have facebook fan pages
3:32 Kerri-Wiemer: Yeah, I didn't like that question. I am glad she is telling him, though. I would have ignored it
3:32 luyos: I dont believe the boys have facebooks, I will be updating the valid links to the web page soon. In development.
3:32 pdx_marigold: Yay Amy! Glad you can address this for all the naysayers out there.
3:32 DanielleGS: going to church is about having values and living life fully
3:32 RevVigeant: good for you Sarah
3:33 SarahMKenny: :)
3:33 dscarrier50: YEAH AMY!!!
3:33 RollTideRollAlabamer: perfectly put Sarah!
3:33 aklmom: What do have planned for 2011?
3:33 Tom_Summerville: What types of recipes and food will be in your cookbook? Any uncommon recipes? Any pies & desserts?
3:33 maillady333: so true amy!
3:33 Kerri-Wiemer: YAY AMY!!!!
3:33 australiansw: say happy birthday to jacob
3:33 provjb-1: what ever happened to the young boy "Chance" who was featured a few seasons back.
3:33 SarahMKenny: OH NOOOO!
3:33 markjohnsonn: what web page will it be on ??
3:33 CODY-kidsTVactor: outstanding Mrs Roloff - thank youuu!
3:33 DebyTaylor-1: Amy will you ever come to Houston Texas?
3:33 RollTideRollAlabamer: give Sarah a shout out for being an awesome person Amy!
3:33 markjohnsonn: Do the kids have facebook fan pages??
3:33 maillady333: oh no we like having you here with us!!!
3:33 dscarrier50: LECANTO FLORIDA LOVE
3:33 purewolf386: are ya'll going to beupdating the rollofffarms website?
3:33 SarahMKenny: I really want a signed copy of the cookbook
3:33 dscarrier50: Lecanto Florida loves Amy
3:34 Lepplady: Well said Amy.
3:34 luyos: It will be Amy's Charitys webpage.
3:34 DanielleGS: i agree Amy!
3:34 aklmom: What do you have planned in your career for 2011
3:34 dscarrier50: Way to go AMy
3:34 markjohnsonn: alright thank you so much
3:34 maillady333: love and blessings out to you and your family amy, will catch you next time!
3:34 CODY-kidsTVactor: praying starts at the home. keep the faith and have hope! thats the key!
3:34 SarahMKenny: I will repeat: No such thing as a perfect church, only a perfect Savior...He only requires our heart
3:34 Kerri-Wiemer: AWESOME JOB, AMY!!!
3:34 Kelton222: How many more pumpkin seasons are there going to be?
3:34 australiansw: say happy birthday to jacob
3:34 Hurleyhero724: Are the boys still going to college?
3:34 rollofffan: what was the most interesting thing that you have cooked? I'm just learning to cook

====================

What is your opinion of Amy's answer?

That was the part of the chat was that really stood out, however, here is a summary of some other things Amy said in the chat (if you haven't watched the whole chat yourself --which you are encouraged to watch!)

-Amy is struggling in the month of January, it's kind of depressing. She's staying up late, sleeping in...she doesn't like it much.

-Jeremy and Zach are in the same spot. They are still figuring out their schedules. They are still at PCC. They are focusing on transferring but it's much more of a task than they anticipated. They are still at home, there are some rules, but they are independent for the most part. Amy says friends don't come over as much as they used to.

-Zach is still working at the indoor soccer place. He's looking into other opportunities with soccer.

-Jeremy is looking for a part time job. He's still doing his photography.

-Do Jeremy and Zach still need Amy to wake them? Yeah sometimes, but not all the time.

-Jacob's birthday was a great time. Molly came back from a skiing trip just in time for them all to go out to dinner for his birthday.

-Jake has a lot of stuff, but he's had a lot of stuff taken away from him too (punishment for poor grades, etc).

-In addition to the mini-fridge they bought Jacob, they also got him a stereo. She hopes it will keep him motivated while doing homework. Amy thinks he wanted a mini fridge because that's what his brothers and Molly have. Amy made sure to stock it with healthy food and drinks.

-Molly is going out with friends more this year. She's going to be going on a school mission trip to Haiti. She's excited. Other people have supported her financially to allow Molly to go. Molly is using some of her own money, but she's also reaching out to others for assistance. Amy is proud Molly is going and likes to think that she had an influence.

-Not much is going on around the farm in the winter months. March is when Matt begins to think about plans for pumpkin season.

-Molly is 17, Jacob will be graduating from 8th grade in June.

-Jeremy and Zach will probably be transferring from PCC to a University next year.

-None of her kids have left home yet, but they will start to leave next year, so she's having those pre-empty nester feelings.

-Amy's mom role is changing. Amy says her whole family thinks she is changing, but Amy thinks it's her role that is changing, she's always had this side of her.

-Matt's health is doing pretty good. The winter months can be tough; the cold makes his joints stiff and sore. He's looking into whether it's just the cold or if he should look into other solutions. Matt is on meds for high blood pressure and diabetes. He is on the low end of being a diabetic. Amy looks at it as a wake up call before it gets worse.

-She mentioned her Amy J Roloff Facebook Fan Page and encouraged people to go there for the latest updates from her.

-Her travel schedule depends on womens groups and non profit organizations that are interested in her speaking about diversity from her view.

-Everyone asks her if they'll keep the farm and if pumpkin season will continue. Yes and Yes as long as Matt has the energy for pumpkin season - because Matt is the driving force of pumpkin season - the rest of the family helps when it's actually open, but Matt does all the planning, etc..

-Jake is doing a little bit of soccer, he's trying to figure himself out. This is the toughest time Amy has had with Jacob in supporting him, to get him to do his best, trying to find out what he has a passion for...other than that Jacob is a great young boy.

-She had musician Patrick Lamb as a guest. He mentioned at the end that "when you get your own syndicated talk show, I'll be able to say I knew you when..."

-Amy is going through her old photos. She might share some of them. Her kids and their friends have been bugging her to make a photo album of all their old pictures.

-She likes the book Chicken Soup For the Soul - likes positive thinking.

-Who was born first Jeremy or Zach ? Jeremy was born first. They were a bit premature. She needed to wait two and a half weeks to take them home because their lungs weren't fully developed.

-There won't be a coffee chat next Friday because she will be away for her speaking engagement, but it will return Feb 4th.

119 comments:

Austin said...

Thank you Kyle! But here's what Amy doesn't understand.

She can't support anyone that faces non acceptance and discrimination if she also supports churches and groups like Focus on the Family that are intolerant and discriminate!

Austin said...

There are thousands of churches they could go to. But the one they love ~just happens~ to be extremely discrimatory and extreme against gay people? There are churches that don't promote "gay therapy" or whatever you call it when a Church tries to "un-gay" gay people.

Brandon said...

Reading the chat comments was interesting. Isn't it interesting that everyone on there was attacking the one gay guy for asking a totally legit question? "Yeah you tell him Amy!!!" Some of Amy's chat people are bashing him on Amy's fan page for asking that question.

Cindy said...

Amy seemed rattled after that question.

Roloff Fan in KC said...

She did a great job with the question sticking it to people that lie about the Roloffs.

JimW said...

What she said makes perfect sense.

Christine said...

Could anyone hear what Lisa said to Amy? I think she said does Amy want them to ban Kyle? That would have been fitting! Kick the gay person out. That would have been so accepting. Did they? I didn't see Kyle's name after Amy answered?

Dana said...

Totally classless of Kyle to ask that but what do you expect from people like that? I totally agree with all of the comments from the other chatters. If I was Amy, I would have ignored it.

PDX said...

Take that detractors! Amy did fabulous with it.

Carol said...

I think she dodged. She didn't commit to anything. She didn't say "I don't believe gay people are need of a cure".

Having said that, I am impressed that she didn't agree with Danielle about going to church is about having values. Good for Amy for correcting her and correctly saying that you don't have to go to church to have values.

Greg said...

What was needed was the chance to follow up.

Why out of ALL the churches does she support ones that are so bigoted against gay people? There are some churches that aren't so bad in being anti gay. What about Amy's support of Focus on the Family? Just another great organization with 'one little thing' she might or might not support, an organization notorious for pouring millions of dollars to discriminate against gay people. What about Matt's fans proudly and loudly using gay slurs and derogatory statements, saying their kids do it too and Matt thanking them for being his fans and even personally calling them?

Like Brandon said, you can even see the gay backlash against the gay person develop in Amy's chat and on her fan page. Jeremy's own history of saying "f*ggot", f*g", f*ggot hole" and other offensive and mocking things without an apology.

Funny that the Roloffs surround themselves with anti gay people and groups but they won't come out and say if that's what they believe or not.

If she supports people that are being discriminated against why isn't she against Focus of the Family. Why support this church?

David said...

Amy doesn't comprehend that it's not "one little thing". What if that "one little thing" was about the prejudices against Little People?

Diane said...

Amy got kind of passive aggressive with the part about 'just because "I like black, you like white, means I'm not a person or my opinions aren't worth anything because I believe in this and you don't?".....yes Amy when you're a diversity speaker but support discrimination.

Natalie said...

I"m not super big on how Amy answered because I think she stayed in safe ground not really saying either way, but I do love what she said at the end about not everyone can be a CEO but everyone has worth. That's what I believe about God and where I think our society has it wrong. The janitor has as much worth as the CEO in God's eyes.

AF said...

She did great! Like they said, she told him!

Jason said...

Amy ducked. Does she or doesn't she believe gays need to be cured. She didn't answer.

I see Molly is falling in the footsteps of the rest of his family with ripping of charity! The Roloffs are freaking millionaires, but Molly is "reaching out to others" for assistance ($$$$) to go to Haiti? Why the heck doesn't her loaded family pay for Molly to go? Because the Roloffs are cheap and when they can work the system for themselves, that's what Roloffs do.

Pamela said...

There you have it. What I take away from her answer (kudos for answering) is that she is not anti gay as speculated. A lot of people owe Roloffs an apology in my opinion.

Katie said...

Why all the hostility in the chat to Kyle? Amy said she wanted a tough question. Then when she gets it they attack him.

Rap541 said...

Carol is right, folks.

She was specifically asked about reconciling her role as a diversity speaker with attending a church that has the viewpoint that gay people can be cured thru religion.

isn't it true that you, Jeremy and the church you attend believe that gay people are broken and
need to pray to Jesus to be cured? How can you say you speak about acceptance if you think some minorities should NOT accept themselves and pray that they get cured?


This is a pretty specific question.

Amy's response is a wiffle waffle.


I do attend a church that is Christian biased, but that is my faith. That doesn't always mean that everyone who attends the church will always agree on every little thing a church will preach about, be about, on their website, but does that necessarily you mean that your throw out the church because of that one thing?


Do you throw out the baby with the bathwater because something is wrong? There is always going to be something that you're not going to like about a faith, a religion, a church, a business, people, their thoughts, 'I like black, you like white', but I'm not worth a person, or my opinions aren't worth anything because I believe in this and you don't?


Does she approve of her church's views?

For the record - I am not hearing "Yes, I think gays are broken and need to accept Jesus" (thats for you Christian folks to stop and consider, Amy is NOT proudly standing up for this particular belief)

On the other hand, I am also not hearing "I don't approve of my church's stance on homosexuality".

She dodged it. Its an easy question and a specific one and she gave a non responsive answer.

Greg said...

Katie, it's because the majority of Roloff fans have bigoted attitudes themselves. Look no further than Matt's own board on his website.

The Roloffs are cowards. Believe that gay people are perverted if they want, but don't dance around it. Come out and say it.

Brandon said...

Rap, I agree.

Based on her answer if I knew nothing else, I would say she doesn't support her churches views on homosexuality.

But because of everything else Spirits said and we all know about the Roloffs, what they've done, their friends, how they react to things, I think she DOES support her churches views but knew it's hypocritical as a diversity speaker if she had pinned herself down.

Like someone said, why do they support that church? There are hundreds of churches to support. It's not like there is only one church in the area.

Rap541 said...

Btw - Dana - same question to you that I gave Anne (and that Anne refused to answer)

What's "classless" or disrespectful about the question?

Judy B said...

I actually agree, Carol and Rap.

I would have like for Amy to give a more definitive answer.

In my opinion, Amy doesn't want to speak for gay rights and doesn't support them. She does however want to have a career and speak about her diversity. She is obviously trying not to offend

I would like to see how Matt would answer the same question.

Jan said...

I didn't know what to expect, but I think she did well for needing to think on her feet.

Brandon said...

On a different subject, I think it's funny that talented, able-bodied (except for his dreaded foot injury, shouldn't it be amputated soon?) Jeremy The Great, is "looking" but hasn't found a part time job, while twin brother, dwarf Zach, manages to find work.

Jeremy and all of his immense talents can't find any part time job?

Jason said...

Brandon, Matt is probably angling for Jeremy to collect a disability check for his foot problem. Or maybe they could organize a fundraiser to help Jeremy financially because of his disability :P

Rap541 said...

Brandon, I assume Jeremy is waiting to be *offered* a job. But yours is a valid point. Gosh he's almost old enough to buy his own beer... exactly when will Jer-Bear be a big enough boy to not need his mommy giving him wakies and wiping his bottom?

Judy B - may I ask? Do you think Matt would give a definitive answer to the same question?

Judy B said...

Rap, IN MY OPINION, I don't think Matt would leave the church hanging. He might choose his words carefully for the same reason Amy did, but I think Matt would stand behind the church.

He might not go into details and isn't opposed to be being friends with a homosexual. I think he would make the point better than Amy, that supporting their church does not exclude them for speaking about diversity and dwarfism disabilities.

After all, Matt wasn't shy about his support of Bruce Starr who based on what the articles people have posted, is also a man of God that does not support the gay movement.

Austin said...

Another thought I had.

She used the word "choice" a lot. That's what Christians always say when talking about gay people.

Being gay is not a choice.

Rap541 said...

Judy B - I hope he doesn't disappoint you.

To be clear, what I would expect is not a "we don't dislike gay people" but a clear "I support my church's view that gay people are broken and need to be cured" or "While I attend this church, I do not support my church's stance that gay people can be cured".

In MY opinion, what we would get in response to such a direct question would be similar to Amy's wiffle.

Timothy said...

Rap, well said.

She was very wishy washy.

If she truly supports all that are discriminated against and aren't accepted, why is she not chastising the church for that?

The "one" little thing is debatable too.

Other than that, I am like-minded with Carol. I'm glad she didn't do the easy thing and agree with the comment about attending church being the way to have values in your life. The comment about CEO's and janitors was good too and the type of thing I do respect that some Christians preach.

I did find the tone in the chat among her fans uncomfortable (similar to what developed on Matt's board). She asked for tougher questions. The question was true and fair. There was no reason for all the "You're rude", "Yeah, she told him!" comments.

Timothy said...

Rap, to your point about how they answer, I think if Jeremy was asked the same question, he would say yes that's what he believes and supports the sermon videos. I don't believe Jeremy is strong-minded enough to be a follower of this speaker that he clearly admires and then not agree with him. If Jeremy didn't agree with it, I don't think it would have hooked Jeremy in the first place, I think he likes what he's hearing.

But that is precisely the reason why Matt doesn't allow Jeremy to speak on his own without being under direction or without Matt having control...because Matt (and Amy) know that Jeremy might screw up and say something that would damage the Roloff brand.

I do feel bad for Jeremy in a way. He is almost forced to live his life, publicly anyway, in secrecy. He can't be too vocal about what he thinks because it contradicts the image the family is supposed to be about.

Rap541 said...

Timothy - I agree to your point. Yes, I think there's a reason Matt doesn't allow his adult sons to speak on behalf of the Roloff family and yes, that reason is brand protection.

Which doesn't seem to bug Jer-Bear as long as he can goof at home, with Momma Bear Amy to get him up like the immature little unemployed adult baby he is. Really, he's Matt's son, living that *extra-ordinary* life and showing us all how *extra-ordinary* people *accomplish* things :)

Aidan said...

I'm Catholic and I don't agree with some of the viewpoints i.e. birth control or marriage for gays. If I change parishes, their viewpoints won't change, but I can and do speak out against what I believe vs my church. The Roloffs could change which (nondenominational?) church they go to if they didn't agree with the ideals OR they could speak out against certain topics they disagree with. I appreciate Amy not shying away from a harder question, but her fluff response left much more to be desired.

NJC said...

Amy may not always give the perfect answer but at least she trys, and she's not always looking to spin something. I think she has a good heart which is more than I can say for some of her supporters.

Anita said...

I never heard Jeremy call anyone names in any video. Just because someone on here said it happened doesn't make it true.

Tyson P said...

The posts on this thread are scary and unintelligent regardless of how eloquent they sound. The broad brush and conjecture most of you indict Amy and Matt with is really troublesome and invalidates your arguments. Without any facts other than Jeremy's myspace idiocy and a past link on Amy's speaking site you all are indicting them as actively anti-gay and hypocritical public speakers on diversity. I guess having hardcore facts or real anti-gay quotes don’t factor into your arguments or conjecture as evidence.

We all know what Jeremy wrote was stupid, maybe Jeremy is just that, stupid. I remember Amy and Matt making a statement that they disciplined Jeremy over his posting to friends. Which I don't think targeted any one individual or made a focused opinion about homosexuality as a whole.

Furthermore I haven't seen a singular public or online statement from the Roloffs expressly say they are anti-gay. Until there is something like that this is a lot of hot air, prejudice, and bigotry. Is there a check from the Roloffs to all the anti-gay churches, speakers, and organizations they are being associated with?

I just checked both Matt and Amy's sites and don't see any linkage or association with anti-gay speakers or movements. I think Amy even spoke last year at a Christian Conference about diversity and accepting those of difference within the Christian faith, which included homosexuals. Kind of ignorant to conjecture about a public speaker when you don't know the body and scope of their work, don't you think? Research guys before you start typing.

I think you guys might be getting more biased against the Roloffs than you claim they are. Is there a statement out there you all can find? Is there a person, a friend, or organization that can be pin pointed rather than using "guilt by association"? If not the opinions you all claim as fact are really just opinions and make you just as guilty.

Sucks that Kyle was put down on Amy's chat (didn't see evidence of that - could be creativity license on a posters part) but I don't think Amy can control people who post a comments or questions. I guess if people think she should be responsible for that then we might want to hold this blog up to the same mantle.

It seems posters want Amy and Matt to come out publicly and make a statement about their stance on homosexuality. In fairness to all diversity speakers---as this issues is bigger than the Roloff, is for all diversity & public speakers to give statements about their stance on homosexuality. To resolve the portended hypocrisy we must track down all other active speakers in America, cross reference all their speeches, views, association, and see how many of them HAVEN'T spoken up in favor of gay rights and then label them as homophobic or anti-gay and then go after them one by one. That might resolve a lot of the anger on this forum. What do you guys think?

Brandon said...

Tyson, I would be in favor of "going after"/criticizing" diversity speakers if they declared their love for churches that discriminate. If they or their family or their friends that they hold up as great people used hate speech words.

Do you really not get the point of Kyle's question? If a gay diversity speaker belonged to a church that said people with dwarfism should not be able to get married, should not be able to have kids and need to pray for God to fix them then yeppers, absolutely they should have that thrown in their face when they pretend to preach about acceptance.

Tyson, you're just another one that ignores everything logical. Just like the people 3 weeks ago that called Spirits a liar when Spirits said Jeremy loved the church and this guy's sermons. But now that Jeremy muffed that denial up by liking the churches facebook fan page, you can't deny that the Roloffs love that church so now it's onto even though they love that church they must have nothing to do with the anti gay stuff.

You clearly don't get the point that most people are making. EXACTLY! The Roloffs won't clearly come out and say they support the churches they love and the church speakers they love in being anti gay and non accepting of gay people. They won't do that because they are cowards that are rightfully afraid that their bigoted attitudes will cost them money in lost speaking events.

Jeez, it's not conjecture. They have a son that used gay hate speech words without apology. Even Matt's favorite fan poster that he praised for her intelligence, Sawyer, snickered when someone said Matt's statement was apology, she snickered that it wasn't an apology at all, it was a more of a "shut up and drop it" message. That was the one time I agreed with her!

Matt and Amy wouldn't even name "one of their children" in their statement about it. Please tell us how Jeremy was disciplined for his slur infested comments? Didn't Matt buy him the Camaro right around that time? It's hard to tell though because Jeremy's slurs spanned so much time. The so-called punishment didn't even include removing the comments or to stop making them since they continued until fans and then the enquirer got wind of what he was saying.

Lets see. 5 years ago the church the Roloffs were attending was anti gay, delivering sermons about gay people being cured.

Now two weeks ago Jeremy is pumping up his new church that has the same beliefs and the same message. Also include Amy's old Focus on the Family link.

Dontcha think that's quite a few examples of the Roloffs standing next to a lot of anti gay messages? But you think it's only fair to call them anti gay if they hold press conferences to kill their own diversity careers by telling the world about their bigoted, non accepting beliefs? That ain't going to happen.

Amy was asked and she didn't give a clear cut answer.

Matt is too cowardly to take questions that he doesn't screen first and Jeremy isn't allowed to speak for himself by Ma and Pa.

Brandon said...

Anita, Jeremy called people names on the internet, on Myspace. It's wayyyyyyy past the point of denying it since even Matt, Amy and Jeremy's friend that he made the comments with all admitted that it was true.

The video part is the Church video with the anti gay message, gays are perverted, broken and must seek spiritual healing to be turned straight by the church Jeremy loves and that Roloffs attend.

Christine said...

Anita, Jeremy called people names online...gays, blacks, Mexicans, fans that weren't pretty enough that his kind God-loving heart found it necessary to ridicule the girl with his friends.

Wonderful Mueller mocked people with down syndrome, saying stuff like "cross eyed downie" but he's a great person according to the Roloffs and Jeremy even played that Mackenzie family for fools by getting a free vacation from them when they apparently care about trying to get people to stop saying the word "retard". I wonder how Jeremy described that vacation to Mueller? I wonder if it included the R word since it was part of their vocab before.

David said...

If a person is surrounded by smoking guns, you're a fool if you don't believe it unless they admit it. It's called logic.

People that care about diversity and are against discrimination don't go from one anti gay church to another anti gay church and support Focus on the Family. You have to be stupid or living under a rock if you don't know that FOTF are actively anti gay rights.

The question was spot on. The equivalent would be stating that LPs need ask God for help to cure their dwarfism or else they will be damned to Hell for Eternity.

If Amy and Matt really cared about diversity and discrimination as much as they claim to when they are trying to work the diversity speaking segment they would deem it an important issue and one that would prevent them from supporting churches that taught that.

We know Matt has said he has his staff scours the internet looking for criticism.

Well, Matt. Do you believe gay people should turn to God and their Church to be cured? What does Matt think of Jeremy recommending videos that contain that intolerant messages? Why do you recommend, like and attend churches and videos if you strongly disagree with what they are about?



PS. Christine, as a Jewish man, I can't forget that the comments from Jeremy and friends included "what do you think that I'm some sleazy jew".

Austin said...

David, my opinion about Matt? I think his homophobia is more from the "macho" guy side than the religious side.

I've found there are two main types of homophobes. The deeply religious and then the macho guys. I think Amy is in the first group and Matt the second.

Remember how disgusted Matt was when Jeremy showed up with an earring? Does it really take a brain surgeon to figure out why Matt was disgusted? Matt also said his own 10 year old son was acting like "a little sissy boy" because he cried and ran away.

Rap541 said...

Tyson - in response:

Without any facts other than Jeremy's myspace idiocy and a past link on Amy's speaking site you all are indicting them as actively anti-gay and hypocritical public speakers on diversity. I guess having hardcore facts or real anti-gay quotes don’t factor into your arguments or conjecture as evidence.

Problem one is that there's more to it than just Jeremy's myspace idiocy and Amy linking to Focus on the Family. There's the reality that the Roloffs do indeed attend a church that is pro gays-are-broken-and-need-to-be-cured. There's the article here about wassiname Sy who spoke at the Roloffs regular church with the Roloffs attending. There's the John Marks church that Jeremy loves and cites to his friends. There's the wiffling "one of the children was spoken to" not quite apology on Matt's part. Quite frankly - there's amy's current comments. Is she against the concept of gays are broken and need Jesus to cure them? Then why not say so instead of "well the church is great but there are some things we don't care for". This isn't hard. Does she or doesn't she approve of her church's views on homosexuality? What *do* the Roloffs think? Why is it SUCH a mystery? I mean, they are diversity speakers, not private citizens. People have a right to know what they are paying for.

We all know what Jeremy wrote was stupid, maybe Jeremy is just that, stupid. I remember Amy and Matt making a statement that they disciplined Jeremy over his posting to friends. Which I don't think targeted any one individual or made a focused opinion about homosexuality as a whole.

Let's not rewrite history. Matt and Amy's statement was a vague comment about disciplining one of the children over unfortenate remarks. Reports at imdb at the time made by people claiming to be friends said that Jeremy found the whole business quite hilarious. Jeremy's remarks included repeated use of f*g, f*ggithole, the phrase "not to be a gay bragging f*ggit but I raped their defenses", a reference to Mexico being "That beaner place" and refering to his revered much loved and respected father figure Mike Detjen being "pretty sweet, just like a (N-word) for doing as Jeremy wanted.

For the record - although its often claimed otherwise - Jeremy clearly understands the negative connotations and context of the racial slurs he uses. He's not using words he doesn't understand, and he's clearly using these words as derogatory descriptors.

Furthermore I haven't seen a singular public or online statement from the Roloffs expressly say they are anti-gay. Until there is something like that this is a lot of hot air, prejudice, and bigotry.

The Roloffs attend a church that endorses curing gay people of homosexuality. Amy has linked Focus on te Family to her website. Ron Roloff has stated and then removed a bunch of comments on how anyone who doesn't accept Jesus and the Bible isn't an American citizen.

The Roloffs have never made an unequivoicable statement of their view on homosexuality. Yes, considering the church they attend and the behavior of close family family members, it becomes an issue.

As for the rest, Amy was just asked on friday for a clear statement on the subject and wiffled. If she's not endorsing her church's view that homosexuals need to be cured, then why isn't she saying so?

Is there a person, a friend, or organization that can be pin pointed rather than using "guilt by association"? If not the opinions you all claim as fact are really just opinions and make you just as guilty.

The Roloffs attend a church that endorses the idea that homosexuals can be cured. Amy was just asked about this view point and avoided answering. Why?

Next part

Rap541 said...

It seems posters want Amy and Matt to come out publicly and make a statement about their stance on homosexuality. In fairness to all diversity speakers---as this issues is bigger than the Roloff, is for all diversity & public speakers to give statements about their stance on homosexuality. To resolve the portended hypocrisy we must track down all other active speakers in America, cross reference all their speeches, views, association, and see how many of them HAVEN'T spoken up in favor of gay rights and then label them as homophobic or anti-gay and then go after them one by one. That might resolve a lot of the anger on this forum. What do you guys think?

I think the question would easily be solved IF the Roloffs made a statement on their views on homosexuality. The concern that people have is that the Roloffs are preaching something and at times chastising the public to accept people with differences but also attend a church that demands gays be cured or else be deemed not Christian. A huge part of the problem here is that there is a faction of the LPBW fandom that LOVES the idea that the Roloffs hate homos. Look at some of the responses here. There's a significant faction of posters here who would treat "We think gays make a choice to be evil" with a great big "right on!".

Heck look at the recent discussion over Jeremy's comments on how he has tons of gay and black friends. Thats from the Blessed Christian Jeremy's mouth. And when I asked why we have not once ever over five years of filming ever seen one of Jeremy best black friends in the Roloff home or even just in the background....there was a short burst of whining and then everyone shut up.

If the Roloffs truly don't believe gays need to be cured, why won't they just say so? It only *enhances* their diversity position.

Tyson P. said...

Again sorry Brandon and Rap all conjecture. Do you know how often Amy or Matt attend that church? I am sure you most know with utmost certainty? Do you know how often they attend sermons that are anti-gay and preach curing homosexuality? Your evidence is based on Jeremy's posts 5 years ago, a link that was removed from Amy's site promptly, Jeremy's recent posts about liking a church, and a mass of conjecture from highly edited LPBW episodes.

I think my thesis was clear but then again you deal in vagaries because you are not impartial and cast your opinion into bias just like the church you are so angry at. Again you don't have any evidence, nothing. That was my point. Why don't you go after the church?

My point is clear you are attacking Amy and Matt because of Jeremy's actions from years ago on facebook and his recent affection for a church. The "smoking gun" metaphor is so weak it is hilarious - because someone does or says something others associated with said person are guilty and share the same view. I guess Brandon and Rap if you had a gay relative or an anti-gay relative you must share their same opinions right? I guess Brandon and Rap if you have a racist or bigoted grandparent your entire family must be racists and bigots right? In your world no one has their own opinion everyone just borrows them from others around them. So when you go to work on Monday you should let all your co-workers know your stance and distance yourself from those you are associated with. Let me know how that goes. Keep painting with that big old prejudice brush of yours.

Jocelynn said...

"Amy may not always give the perfect answer but at least she trys, and she's not always looking to spin something. I think she has a good heart which is more than I can say for some of her supporters."

I agree, NJC. I think Amy does have good intentions too.

It's possible that because of her experience speaking about discrimination that she came to disagree with the churches view on homosexuality, but Jeremy hasn't.

Spirits said most of the love for this new church and this John Mark speaker is coming from Jeremy. It's possible (and personally what I believe is likely) that Amy disagrees, but Jeremy believes it.

In my mind, Jeremy and his friends have never had any empathy or the "what would it be like if I were in their shoes" towards gay people.

I would be shocked if Jeremy thought about it deeply enough to disagree with John Mark. I've looked around the site for that Church and he has a rabid following from people Jeremy's age. I don't agree with some of the things he said, but I can see that he has that cool appeal that people like Jeremy might be swept up into.

I allow for the possibility that Amy might not agree with that view, but Jeremy does. Although like Rap said, this would have been all cleared up if she had simply said whether that's what she believes or not. I think as a PUBLIC speaker people do have a right to know. It is different than being a private citizen.

Jocelynn said...

Tyson P, for what it's worth, Amy had the Focus on the Family link on her amyjroloff website for about year.

She had about seven links on it. After she started her charity foundation, she replaced the Focus On The Family link, with the Amy Roloff Charity Foundation link.

http://amyjroloff.com/links.php

Riley Roars said...

Tyson, you forgot the anti gay politicians that Matt and Amy proudly support.

A gay rights group cited Bruce Starr as having one of the worst voting records among politicians on gay rights issues.

Amy says she supports anyone that is discriminated against. How so when she is voting for politicians that vote to discriminate.

http://www.voteequality.com/Endorsements.html

"Riley is a pro-equality candidate and was a solid vote on Oregon’s 2007 non-discrimination and domestic partnership laws. His opponent (Starr) has one of the worst voting records in Oregon--he voted to oppose both laws. The choice is clear, and it is Riley."

Who did the Roloffs campaign for? Starr.

Brandon said...

Tyson, did you even listen to Amy's response?

She was asked "Isn't it true that you, Jeremy and the church you attend believes..."

If she doesn't attend a church that believes that, I would have to think that she would have said "No, that is not true. My church does not believe that". She had the chance to clear it all up if it wasn't true.

Instead her response was a bunch of waffling about "just because" you attend a church "doesn't necessarily" mean you believe every little thing.'

And I agree with what many people have echoed, that total intolerance towards gay people should not be a "little thing" for a diversity speaker that claims to support anyone that is discriminated against or that is not accepted for who they are.

It's almost humorous that after years of the Roloffs getting patted on the back for being pro-God and anti-gay, that now some of their backers (and obviously the Roloffs themselves) are realizing that it could be damaging to their career/income, now suddenly the notion that they support gay people is being trotted out.

Morgan said...

Well I think it's easy to see why the Roloffs won't say they support gay rights or strongly disagree with their church because a) they do believe it b)The majority of their friends have anti gay attitudes.

If one lives their life affiliating with anti gay things, one is going t be labeled anti gay.

Jane said...

It could be that Jeremy is a bigot, but Matt and Amy aren't.

Jeremy is the one that said the gay slurs, not Matt and Amy.

Jeremy is the one that is full fledged excited about this church that wants to de-gay people.

BeckyM said...

Scratching head *** no she didn't address the question - she totally dodged it. She never stated what her personal views of homosexuals are and if they should be accepted.

Whatever, Amy. Tap dance all you want, you still aren't getting my vote as being a Diversity Speaker.

Brandon said...

Jane, the problem I have with that assertion is on a couple of fronts.

Matt and Amy's lackadaisical reaction to Jeremy's slurs. It amounted to a "shut up and don't criticize our golden boy".

People that really care about those that were offended or hurt by Jeremy's comments don't demonize those people for being hurt. They offer a sincere apology.

They don't have the person they picked to control their website write messages that "Words don't hurt" and "people are too sensitive" and thank people that proudly and intentionally spew gay slurs and people that cyber bully gay people (Matt appointed "Mrs. Sawyer" a moderator, said he wants to visit her and she got banned on other forums for offensive remarks including cyber-bullying gay posters).

Those things aren't the actions of parents that care about diversity that somehow got unlucky and have rogue bigoted son.

Just like how the Roloff kids were trashing the fans while Matt was writing newsletters saying "The entire family is so grateful and humbled by your support", I bet it's likely that getting speaking money from groups that support gay rights is another knee-slapping 'we're so sly' moment in the Roloff home.

Tom S said...

Tyson P, you would have a valid point with your last statement but Brandon and Rap are not Diversity speakers. Matt and Amy are. Correct?

Peter said...

Tyson, this could all be solved if the Roloffs took a stand and said what they believe of the gay rights issue and if they do disagree with "cure the gay people" mantra of their church.

If they are proud diversity speakers, they shouldn't have a problem standing up for it.

The Roloffs have a right to support their church. The Roloffs have a right to believe gays are perverted and in need of a cure.

People just want them to be honest (haha, I know Roloffs honest, haha) about it instead of them playing both sides of the fence.

Understandably, the Roloffs like playing both sides of the fence because it's profitable. This way they get the Christian groups speaking engagements and the diversity groups events.

Carrie said...

I think Amy did her best with a tough question. She could have avoided it.

Rap541 said...

Tyson - do you agree that the Roloffs could easily clear up the ambiguity and the conjecture with one clear statement? Either they support the notion that gay people are broken and need to be cured or they don't.

Tyson - I notice you don't seem to have any problem with the faction of fans that runs around declaring how awesome it is that Jeremy attends this John Marks church and how awesome it is that Matt and Amy are Christians with Christian values who support Bruce Starr and who cite the same evidence I do to prove their claims that the Roloffs are staunchly conservative Christians.

Are they?

You also seem to think that Amy and Matt are private citizens. They most certainly are not. Matt and Amy Roloff are diversity speakers who are paid a nice wage to lecture us on how dwarfs and people with disabilities are just like everyone else. What spurned this whole conversation was someone asking the very valid question - why should we listen to Amy if she or members of her direct family (Jeremy is unemployed and living at home, therefore fully supported by Amy and Matt) are in fact actively stating that some minorities should pray to God to be cured of their differences instead of being accepted for who they are?

People pay Amy to talk about diversity. That money goes to her unemployed son who gets his jollies attending a church that actively counters the point she makes. Now, I don't expect a mother to disown a child over political or religious views but I do expect someone who is earning their living on the diversity speakers tour to have a clear opinion on how they feel about a particular minority. Amy does not - she wiffled the question.

And by the way, Amy never denied attending the church that views that gays need to be cured so I really don't know why you think that's conjecture. She also didn't deny Jeremy's attendence at the John Marks church or that the Roloffs have attended the John Marks church. She did indeed endorse Focus on the Family with a link on her website for some time. Ron Roloff did indeed have a "Only people who accept Jesus are Americans" rant on his blog, the Roloffs do indeed endorse Bruce Starr. They do attend a church that endorses the idea that gays need to be cured. Does it really matter how often they attend... when they could simply not attend and find a church without that viewpoint?

They're public figures who make money off preaching on how people should be accepted for their differences, Tyson. I'd like to know whether or not they endorse the view that homosexuals can be cured by accepting Jesus. Its not that hard - all I need to hear is a *clear* statement, and not a wiffle. By that I mean "we don't hate homosexuals" is not a clear statement on this issue.

"We don't agree with our church that homosexuals need to be cured."

Or

"We do agree with our church that homosexuals need to be cured."

That would clear it all up and if its the second, then there's a faction of the fandom that would do a little dance of glee, Tyson.

Rap541 said...

Btw Tyson - I will rephrase something I said earlier since you didn't acknowledge it.

If the Roloffs genuinely disagree with their church's view - or since you suggesting they don't attend a church that endorses this view, the general concept - that homosexuals are broken and need to accept Jesus to be cured, why don't they just say so?

It would *enhance* their position as diversity speakers.

Do you know what "enhance" means?

Austin said...

Great posts Rap!!

"You also seem to think that Amy and Matt are private citizens. They most certainly are not. Matt and Amy Roloff are diversity speakers who are paid a nice wage to lecture us on how dwarfs and people with disabilities are just like everyone else. What spurned this whole conversation was someone asking the very valid question - why should we listen to Amy if she or members of her direct family (Jeremy is unemployed and living at home, therefore fully supported by Amy and Matt) are in fact actively stating that some minorities should pray to God to be cured of their differences instead of being accepted for who they are?

People pay Amy to talk about diversity. That money goes to her unemployed son who gets his jollies attending a church that actively counters the point she makes. Now, I don't expect a mother to disown a child over political or religious views but I do expect someone who is earning their living on the diversity speakers tour to have a clear opinion on how they feel about a particular minority. Amy does not - she wiffled the question."

Susan Coles said...

I think Rap made all the relevant points in the post at 8:58.

Well done Rap :)

Mellissa said...

Rap, To be like Amy's chat fans...."Yo Go Girl! Ya you tell him off Rap!! :)

David said...

"People pay Amy to talk about diversity. That money goes to her unemployed son who gets his jollies attending a church that actively counters the point she makes."

Bingo.

Connie said...

Abuse of Freedom of speech should not be condoned. Just because you type it into your computer and post it on the internet doesn't make it fact. Not one shred of hard core evidence has been produced. You just keep spewing the same unsubstantiated rumors.

Spiritswander said...

Connie,
What exactly are you denying here?

To be perfectly clear, the facts that are being reported are:

1) Jeremy is enthralled by John Mark's church.

2) Jeremy likes and recommends John Mark's sermons - including the loveology series.

3) Other Roloffs have also attended this church and have declared that they thought it was amazing (although as we have said, Jeremy is the Roloff that is described as most enthusiastic about this particular church.

4) This particular Church preaches that homosexuality is a perversion, that homosexuals have something broken deep within themselves and that people who are gay should seek God and Spiritual counselling to turn themselves into heterosexuals and be cured of their "gayness", thus being welcomed into the Kingdom of God. The video has been provided for viewing.

5) Another church the Roloffs have attended in the past also welcomed "ex-gay" speakers with the same message.

6) Amy and Matt Roloff are diversity speakers who among other topics, speak about accepting oneself and accepting others for who they are.

7) Amy Roloff has previously linked the Focus On The Family website on her www.amyjroloff.com website. Focus On The Family is notorious for being involved in several anti-gay initiatives.

8) Jeremy has used gay (and racial) slurs and has never really publicly spoken about it or expressed regret or apologies, etc.

Those are the facts we are reporting. What people make of those facts is up to each person as an individual. Think it doesn't matter? That's your choice. Think it does matter? That's your choice. Think it's a contradiction to the message of accepting other's differences for who they are? That's your choice. Don't think it's a contradiction? That's your choice.

Jeremy has an open invitation and is more than welcome to contact as through spiritswander@gmail.com and deny or clarify if he feels what we have reported is any way inaccurate. Matt and Amy are also welcome to contact us if they are willing to discuss with follow up questions how they balance the two positions or how they feel about Jeremy's enthusiasm for a church and a speaker that actively preaches a message that is seemingly in direct contradiction to the their speeches about how people should accept who they are and accept others as they are.

It is a little tiresome to be accused of lying for reporting something that is fact and that everyone 'in the know' knows to be true.

If you are claiming knowledge, so much so that you are accusing us of lying and implying that you know Jeremy personally, please by all means, encourage him to contact us immediately so Jeremy can clarify whatever he feels is inaccurate or expand on his thoughts and feelings on the issues. That is our invitation. We would be very curious to hear how his many friends who share his enthusiasm for John Mark and this particular church would react to Jeremy publicly distancing himself from this church and the speaker whom he recommends his sermons.

Rap541 said...

Actually Connie, the problem that has been pointed out again and again is that Amy and Matt won't make a clear, unequivacable statement of their views. Its not "rumor" that the Roloffs attend a church that sponsors Sy Rogers to come in and speak on curing gays. Its not rumor that the Roloffs have attended the loveology church that also endorses "gays need to pray to God to change them". Its not rumor that Jeremy Roloff recommends the loveology church. I could go on about what's not a rumor here.... (and if its necessary I will)

Amy was asked a question on her views and gave a non responsive answer. Do the Roloffs endorse their church's position that homosexuals are broken and need to pray to God to cure them? Or don't they? Amy was asked about this and made a vague comment about not liking everything in her church but didn't make a clear statement. Thats not a rumor either.

Brandon said...

Spirits, they know it is true, they are just trolling because whoever they are, they're aware that the Roloffs association with a non accepting church could be damaging to their ability to land future diversity speaking jobs about acceptance and discrimination.

But I like the idea. Jeremy speaking for Jeremy. That would be refreshing. I doubt it will happen though. Maybe when he's 35 he might be up to it?

LeeAnn said...

It's disappointing that Matt and Amy could carry discriminatory attitudes against any person or raise their kids to believe in discrimination considering all their personal life lessons.

Saunders said...

I think Amy and Matt can speak about diversity and not think gays are right.

Mark P said...

Sounds to me like they've raised quite the bigot in Jeremy and they are trying to distance themselves from Jer's support for radical ideas because they need the groups that it will offend.

abstractdaisy said...

Saunders, You're correct. Matt & Amy can certainly speak about diversity and not think gays are right. They'd also be hyprocrites. Maybe I'll throw out there that I think all dwarfs choose their stature and I think it's just plain wrong and because of their choice and unless they grow a foot taller they're going to hell. Of course, I'd look like I had lost my mind because stature, hair color, eye color and the like is not a choice. Neither is being gay. The Roloff's are discriminatory in the worst way and they, of all people, should know what it feels like to be shunned, shamed and made to feel less than important because of who or what you are. I'd be curious to know if Amy thinks God made a mistake when he created dwarfs and gays.

Lori Anne said...

Just because Ron might be prejudiced against non Christians and Jeremy might be prejudiced against gays, doesn't mean Matt and Amy don't like diversity. They shouldn't need to trash their own family.

I have a family member that uses racist slurs. I don't like it, but what am I going to do? I still love them but I don't like it when they use it or agree with it.

Rap541 said...

Lori Anne - No one is asking Matt or Amy to say "We trash our son Jeremy".

What is being asked is for Matt and Amy to make a definative statement on their personal views on homosexuality. Does Matt believe homosexuals are broken and need to pray to God to be changed into "good" people? Does Amy believe homosexuals are broken and need to pray to God to be changed into "good people"?

Matt and Amy can say yes or no to this question without disowning their son or even saying one word about their son that still lives at home and is still monetarily supported by their diversity money.

To make the point again, Matt and Amy make money on preaching to others to accept those who are different and monetarily support their unemployed, fully abled, adult son to attend a church that actively says that some people should NOT be accepted unless they change.

Timothy said...

Rap, I disagree with you about that. I do expect Matt and Amy to say one word about Jeremy's love of following this church with their message.

Yeah, I want to know what they believe. But Jeremy has been part of their diversity message on the show for 6 years. He is their son. I want to know how they feel about Jeremy loving a speaker that is not accepting of differences.

Austin said...

Right on Timothy.

How can someone be considered an effect speaker about equality if they have a son that is bigoted and is completely not accepting of differences? If they can't raise a son to respect differences without trying to change those differences how can they teach strangers to do it?

Austin said...

What about Jeremy being an adult and explaining what he believes once and for all?

Louisa said...

Jeremy is his own person. He doesn't speak about accepting all people. He has a right to believe that gays should change to get right with God.

Matt and Amy shouldn't be held responsible for what Jeremy might think about gays.

Rap541 said...

Louisa - I agree with you up to a point... and that point is that Jeremy should be speaking for himself.

But as an adult, Jeremy has made the decision to allow his *parents* to speak for him, and to maintain his status as their *dependant child*. Jeremy lives with his mother and father. Jeremy has no outside employment. His bills and needs and wants are all provided for by his mother and father... who make money telling others to accept people for who they are.

This allows Jeremy to not work and live a life of priveledge and yes, espouse a way of thinking that is the direct opposite of his parents views. And no one, mom and dad Roloff included, say boo to that. Their silence and continued support is their acceptance of his stated values.

He lives at home, apparently rent free. They pay for everything. Yes, Matt and Amy *could* very easily say "if you're man enough to completely disagree with our values and attend this church that makes us look bad, you're man enough to move out/pay rent/speak for yourself". Instead the Roloffs continue to support their unemployed adult son and allow him to actively espouse values that you, Louisa, say they may not agree with.

Matt and Amy have the power to control what gets said and done by the people who live in their house.

Rap541 said...

Timothy - I'd like to know that as well, but realistically, I don't expect any parent to do that publically. Particularly when Jeremy is the favorite.

Rap541 said...

Btw Matt and Amy wouldn't be held responsible for what Jeremy might think about gays if:

A)He wasn't living at home with them, unemployed, and in school, where he is a dependant

B) Matt and Amy made a clear statement as to what their beliefs *are*.

I have no doubt that there is a portion of the LPBW fandom that would LOVE to hear Amy and Matt clearly state that they believe homosexuals need to be cured by praying out the gay.

At the same time, if they don't agree with this sentiment....It only enhances their jobs as diversity speakers.

Katie said...

I think Amy's answer was a clear statement. She doesn't agree with her church. She was asked and said you don't always agree with everything the church preaches, but it doesn't mean you throw it all out because of the one thing.

Why would she say that if she did agree with the church.

I agree that it's likely Jeremy is more fervent about it than Matt and Amy.

Shadow said...

Katie, Amy clearly dodged the actual question by not stating that her church's views on homosexuality were what she disagreed with. She gave the safe answer that carefully avoided her actually having to state what HER beliefs are in regard to homosexuality. I think that made it clear only that she has no intention of publicly expressing her opinion if there is any chance it will negatively affect her opportunities to earn money. So we can all guess what her opinion really is...

Remember, Amy's always said she's the one who "says it like it is," so her silence and avoidance tactics speak pretty emphatically.

Carol said...

Shadow, I agree that she dodged. She used a lot of general statements instead of absolute statements.

She 'might not' agree with 'every little thing' a church preaches, but that's not going be enough to distance herself from that church.

She believes that people should accept themselves and their differences. Do she think the same about gay people or does she think they should change and we as society should urge or pressure them to change? That's what the church that Jeremy and the Roloffs are connected to are doing.

Does she support anyone that is discriminated against? Or does she support the agenda of her church and Focus On the Family that wants fights to discriminate against the right of gay people to marry like Amy or I can?

None of that is clear (except by the none definitive answer).

Maggie said...

For the record, this is the Mission What we believe statement of Jeremy's church.

What We Believe

We believe the Bible to be the inspired, the only infallible, authoritative Word of God.

We believe that there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

We believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, in His virgin birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious and atoning death through His shed blood, in His bodily resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in His personal return in power and glory.

We believe that for the salvation of lost and sinful people, regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential.

We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit by whose indwelling the Christian is enabled to live a godly life.

We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost; they that are saved unto the resurrection of life and they that are lost unto the resurrection of damnation.

We believe in the spiritual unity of believers in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Greg said...

If Jeremy believes the Bible is the authorative word of God he must believe he's supperior to his deformed parents and brother Zach?

Hm, maybe he does and that explains some of his arrogance.

Ruth said...

Maggie,
That Mission is the belief of all Christians and Christian Churches. That would make this argument an attack of the entire Christian Religion.
And Greg, all Christians believe the Bible is the authoritative word of God. So you would also have to argue that all Christians believe they are superior to anyone born with a disability.
You can see, can you not, where your own views are quite dogmatic?

Greg said...

That does not describe all Christians. There are Christians that feel things are taken out of context from the Bible.

There are Christians who don't feel that gay people are an abomination or that healthy people are superior to those with disabilities and deformities.

Ruth, are you saying that all Christians believes as this Church that Jeremy is linked to believes? That gay people must be cured

Here's just one example of how that's not true...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nALL3LYkDhE

David said...

Ruth, where do you stand?

There are people arguing all sides of the fence. Denials that the Roloffs support these beliefs. Pride that they support these beliefs.

Insistence that it's normal for Christians to want gay people to not accept themselves, instead praying to be cured. Insistence that the Roloffs don't believe that.

Ruth, do you feel it's a contradiction for Amy to get paid to speak about accepting your difference if she supports the idea that gay people should pray for their difference to be "fixed"?

Ruth said...

Greg, What exactly are you saying? I think you need to listen to your own video link.
"When people think that you have faith, they attached a lot of things, um, to your faith that you probably might not even ascribe to"
I don't think that Matt or Amy Roloff ascribe to the belief that gay people are an abomination that need to pray for a cure. They speak on their position of acceptance very clearly, and they make these public declarations regularly, maybe the people here should take a listen.

Greg said...

The video is quite clearly coming from a Christian that is does not believe what you suggested in your first post and is unhappy with all the anti-gay stuff coming from Christians.

Since the video makes it clear that she supports gay rights and all that, she obviously does not subscribe to what you were suggesting that all Christians believe.

Jen (the video) could speak about acceptance and not be a hypocrite. Will Matt and Amy make a stand and make their views known? No, they won't.

They stay silent because they're cowards that want the best of both worlds. They want the Christians that believe as Jeremy's church preaches to cheer them on, but they also don't want to alienate themselves from the diversity acceptance speaking money.

Carol said...

Ruth, if Amy and Matt don't think gay people need to pray for a cure, why didn't Amy say "I disagree with the Church that I attend that gay people should pray to be changed by God?"

Better yet, if she disagrees and a fairly major issue, why doesn't she find a church that doesn't preach that message?

Instead she left it cloudy.

I would also like to see Amy as a public speaker give her opinion on her own son's affection for a Church that preaches directly against what she gets paid to talk about.

As it's been said before, I doubt Jeremy would be as attached to a church if they disagreed with their core values about issues that they claim to care about.

Z to the Zee said...

It's so absurd to see people try to lie. Jeremy and many of his group totally love John Mark Comer with his message about gays needing to change. They proudly and often boast about JMC to each other.

Emily said...

Z unless you are part of Jeremy's close circle of friends I don't see how you can claim to know anything. And even if you knew Jeremy, anything you had to say would just be gossip. Jeremy might like JMC as do a lot of young people in the Christian faith, but that does not mean that he agrees whole heartedly with everything he preaches.

Ruth said...

Greg, What I was saying in my first comment about your post was that YOUR position was so narrow minded that YOU were basically painting yourself into a corner. Let me say this again so hopefully you will understand. All Christians inherently believe the Bible is the authoritative word of God, that is part of the faith. So taking your statement at face value, anyone would have to assess that YOU believe that ALL Christians think alike and would then, according to you, believe they are superior to anyone born with a disability. Now, let me suggest to you that although the Roloff family are of the Christian faith and at times attend various Christian churches that they too can ascertain for themselves what to take away from the message that best fits their values and viewpoints and that just because the church or a particular pastor preaches something, they do not have to agree, but can still enjoy the rest of the message that makes sense to them, as it appears Jen from your video link does.

Greg said...

Ruth, you missed my original point which was that it's not the position of all Christians.

There are Christians that don't believe that gay people are an abomination or that people with deformities aren't welcome in the temple of God as the passages in Levitcus reads.

Does Jen praise a pastor that preaches that gays need to be cured? She doesn't. She speaks out against it. That's a huge difference between Jen and the Roloffs. Both with dwarfism and both call themselves Christians.

Z to the Zee said...

Emily, yes I know somebody that is in Jeremy's circle of friends and it's very easy to know what Jeremy likes. He's very outspoken about it. There is no might about it. Jeremy loves JMC and he's not ashamed of it. If anybody tried to say he doesn't to Jeremy's friends they would laugh because you would sound like a fool.

DF said...

I wrote letters to some of these organizations about the Roloffs double dipping. They are wolves in sheep clothing.

They should just do the Christian rounds instead of trying to pull a fast one on the acceptance groups.

You can't be for acceptance and against discrimination if you're for organizations that discriminate and advocating changing differences.

Jake M said...

Personally I think Jeremy is a scumbag hypocrite for this. All his toys and his lifestyle is due to this (obviously phoney) image of being pro-diversity but he's supporting the most anti-diverse message that is out there. Hey gay folks, pray to that you get changed or else you're going to Hell.

Do the discrimination test. Word swap. Put in another groups name for "gay" and see if it sounds bigoted? It's bigotry. Words can't describe what a horrible message ot is.

This Jeremy characters whole lazy lifestyle is supported on the shoulders of diversity and he works against it by supporting bigoted ideals.

I don't believe for one second that he loves this John Mark but is totally opposed to his teachings about gay people.

Matt and Amy deserve to be lumped in if they're not willing to make a stand.

Shadow said...

Ruth, you said "I don't think that Matt or Amy Roloff ascribe to the belief that gay people are an abomination that need to pray for a cure. They speak on their position of acceptance very clearly, and they make these public declarations regularly, maybe the people here should take a listen."

Please post links to these "public declarations." I've never seen any, nor have I ever heard any of them, in any of the extensive film footage of the show, the speaking engagements, radio chats, TV interviews, and the like.

Ashley said...

Shadow, I think what Ruth means is they speak about acceptance in general. Like Amy's topic for her speech in TN.

If she means they speak about acceptance and include gay people, then yeah, I'd like to see links to that too.

I don't think the Roloffs, any of them, accept gay people. I think if a friend of theirs told them they were gay they would urge them to go to the website John Mark promoted in his video. www.Portlandfellowship.com

Marianne said...

Not being gay myself or not having known any gay people, the part that I find most appalling about this church of Jeremy's is about women. Did you all listen to what this church says about the woman in the marriage? Barefoot and pregnant is really what they think is the woman's role should be. In 2011?

There have been tiny hints on the show about Jeremy's sexism but this is shocking to me. Poor Amy. I think about the resistance she must face behind closed doors trying to pursue a career of her own outside of the kitchen.

Timothy said...

I thought of Jeremy while watching this video.

"God is what we need him to be...one who will love you but send your enemies to roast in flames....one who is so great that he created the universe, yet so petty that he persecutes the homosexuals....believers, I ask, is God you? Is God your biases? Is God your judgments? Is God your ego?...When you say 'God doesn't approve of this person's lifestyle, aren't you really saying that you don't approve of someone so you slap the label of sinner on them?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0vggXUcWaU

Christian said...

Jeremy's brand of Christianity makes me sick. People that truly aim to live a Christ-like love do so through selflessness. Jeremy knows nothing but to be selfish and to be an elitist. He is delusional to believe that he is a follower of Jesus.

Set Abomine said...

I was brought up in one of these fundie evangelical literalist christian "churches" and was spoon fed all the BS about gay people from an early age until one day when I was 16 I woke up and realized that what I believed was nothing more than a mental disease in itself and made the decision to leave that "church" and religion for good.

The Roloffs brand of "christianity" is nothing more that a cult (which is what almost all "nondenominational" evangelical "churches" are)where weak willed and simple minded people go to have their souls cleansed and their brains washed until no individuality or rational thought is left and they all believe the same silly things.

Gay people don't need to be "cured" of any mental illness it's the entire evangelical community that has the persecution complex and the delusions of "knowing" what god is planing which makes them all mentally ill.

Z to the Zee said...

If you guys only knew the extend to how Jeremy and Mueller make everyone look like fools. They are way worse than most of you think.

There's not a shred of decency or honesty in either one of them.

Doris said...

I find this shocking to learn of Jeremy's and the Roloffs beliefs and what their chosen church beliefs.

Do people even realize how shocking "gay people need to be cured" is today? Let alone for diversity speakers!

Anybody watch the ABC show "What Would You Do?" One of their skits was having a son tell his mother he is gay in a cafe and they wanted to see if people at nearby tables would intervene.

The breaking point for most people was when the mother said that gayness can be cured and they'll put him in therapy to cure it.

Vic Rattlehead said...

Dana:

Bruce Starr is not a man of god, he's a man of hate.

Samuel said...

Ruth didn't miss any points.

Brandon said...

Samuel, come right out and say what you mean. Are you trying to say that the Roloffs don't believe in "gay therapy"? In a woman's role being to serve her man? Ruth sounds like someone trying to protect their image on the DIVERSITY speaking circuit.

Out of all the churches to attend Jeremy (and Molly apparently) pick the most conservative, the one with the most radical stance on gay people, one that they need to drive a fair distance to attend.

Matt and Amy have also went to this church in addition to Jeremy promoting it and spreading the word about it.

If they don't subscribe to the beliefs their church preaches, why don't they take a stand? Amy had the chance on her coffee chat. She was asked a direct question. She didn't give a direct answer.

Samuel, lets face it. Everyone knows what the Roloffs believe on those issues. It's clear in what they support. It's clear in who they surround themselves with.

But...they aren't willing to publicly come out and say it because they realize it's a total contradiction of Matt and Amy's speaking career topics and it could lose them some $$$.

Although I don't agree with the Roloffs, I would have more respect for them if didn't hide what they believe and came out and said what they believed instead of not even having the courage to take a stand for what they believe because money is more important to them.

Anonymous said...

So glad to see that the Roloff's faith in a a risen savior is keeping their focus on what pleases God and not men. I am so happy to hear that they support Focus on the Family. God loving families are in reality TV as much as the raunch of MTV's The Real World, etc. It's wonderful to know that that they're are these shows available for my children to watch!

Anonymous said...

"She can't support anyone that faces non acceptance and discrimination if she also supports churches and groups like Focus on the Family that are intolerant and discriminate!"

Wrong. By and large Christians themselves, especially in other countries, are the biggest group facing discrimination and intolerance. She knows EXACTLY what it's all about! Besides, not accepting the lifestyle of homosexuality is not equivalent to not accepting PEOPLE. Fact is there ARE things that should not be tolerated, as you MUST agree with seeing as how you don't tolerate Focus on the Family! ; )

It all boils down to defining your terms. You see homosexuality as NON sin, while, the Roloffs do. You have different definitions of the terms, and therefore come to an impass. Amy has to live with HER conscience, and you have to live with YOURS. I'm sure Amy would ALSO side with pediophilia, adultery and fornication as being sinful too.

Rap541 said...

Not really relevant to the topic at hand but....

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/chick-fil-funding-anti-gay-groups-175154249.html?_esi=1

Chick-fil-A caved.

Jason said...

It was inevitable, Rap. It's about money in the end. They only try to make the public believe it's about morals to get more sheep in line.

Austin said...

And that's why the Roloffs hide their applause for the Kirk Camerons of the world?

There's some that would agree with. The most annoying thing about the Roloffs is how two faced they are about their real beliefs.

BeckyM said...

LOL! Listening to Christian Rhetoric would be really funny except it's fanatics like these, with no tolerance for beliefs held by others, that are trying to take possession of power in the U.S.

Clear and simple. Matt and Amy sell themselves as DIVERSITY SPEAKERS. They go to universities that are non-Christian and talk to a student body about the wonderfulness of acceptance. The student body, in their naivete, believe this means DISABILITY, RACE, SEX, AND SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

Meanwhile, we know Matt and Amy held political fundraisers for right wing fanatics who want to take control of women's reproductive rights and are against gay marriage. We also know they raised children that use racial and homophobic slurs against others, AND children who support a religious leader who is against women's equality, women's right to their own reproductive rights, AND gays.

Wow! Amy and Matt shouldn't be blamed? You STILL state they are DIVERSITY speakers?

Facts speak for themselves. Matt and Amy sells a piece of goods so they can make money on the talk show circuit with a message that people want to hear but like all of their kind (i.e. conmen) they don't practice what they preach.

What else is new with the right wing, fanatical Christian movement? Their Risen Savior would walk right by their huge, bloated palaces of worship and wash the feet of a gay person with AIDs while His disciples recoiled in horror.

Religious hypocrisy was alive and well during Christ's time. The only difference is His followers now join the rabble.

Kyle J said...

Interesting how the tide is turning yet the Roloffs still haven't been uncovered by the mainstream media.

CNN, both Piers Morgan and Anderson Cooper was all over a story today about someone associated with a "gay conversion into straight" program apologizing and basically the whole show talked about how awful these programs are.

When will the Roloffs finally be called on the carpet for their association with this stuff?

Only Spiritswander is the real journalist that isn't afraid to report the truth.

Lisa said...

Not going to happen Kyle.

I'm proud to report that Amy was recently visited and filmed by a CNN producer and will soon be featured on CNN's Road Warriors and a segment about the Amy Roloff Charity Foundation.

CNN loves the Roloffs! :)

BeckyM said...

HGTV in the news for trying to gear up a reality tv show with some right wing Christians
https://tv.yahoo.com/news/benham-brothers-blame-hgtv-cancellation-anti-faith-agenda-023200067.html

golly gee - poor widdle extremists can't get a television show because people don't want to watch haters.

HMMM I guess TLC doesn't care and of course the Roloffs hide their real agenda.

Rap541 said...

Becky, I would just point out that this is what I have been talking about for years in regards to the Roloffs.

These two guys? Like their views or hate them, they *stand up and say them*, and while I think they're retracting a little bit, they are for the most part saying "Yup this is what we believe and if that means we lose the show, well, ok".

Show me Matt Roloff standing up and saying "This is what I believe". Show any Roloff willing to say "These are my Christian beliefs and I believe homosexuals should be cured and are wrong and gay marriage is wrong". Nope, they hide their views and avoid taking the stand and then their *anonymous friends* come running with "The Roloffs are standing tall for Jesus!"

If its not a problem, Roloff friends who insist how right wing conservative the Roloffs are, why is no Roloff willing to publically agree and why is no one who is willing to say who they are willing to *insist* they know the Roloffs and the Roloffs believe x, y and Z.

Why is that if the Roloffs are so standing in grace with Jesus, that they just can't have public opinions?

Oh right - it could affect *the money.

Like their view or hate them, at least the twins on HGTV are willing to take a stand on it. There's a reason Matt never has an opinion on anything serious.

BeckyM said...

I agree about the Roloffs, however, my point about these guys is that HGTV was stupid to think they could put these guys on a reality-d├ęcor show amongst an audience that watches Christopher Lowell- stuff.

Bad marketing - bad idea - right from the beginning.

TLC though is a reality-whore and pushed child abusing Kate Gosselin for years. AND they push the Duggers. NO surprise that they are promoting the Roloffs (with their less than 1 mil viewers). It's because these people are cheap - JMO but Kate was dumped because she was expensive, not due to low ratings.

HGTV has been going downhill consistently. Their big programming is just hours and hours of faked-reality real estate shows.