Monday, August 8, 2011

Jen Montzingo Responds To Roloff Christian Fans And Other Comments

Some of the comments in the last item about Jen Montzingo's video about social justice/disability rights got somewhat passionate.

One of the things we have always attempted to do on this site is to be fair to all involved when people make comments about an individual. For anyone who thinks we are unfair to the Roloffs - that's simply not the case. The Roloffs -- Matt, Amy (whose representative arranged an interview and then Amy backed out of it), Jeremy and Zach all have an open invitation to have their say on anything said on our site. The offer stands to any other friends that are discussed, most notably Jacob Mueller. All we can do is offer -- that they don't accept is not something we can control.

Anyhow, when the comments in our last item were getting a bit personal, I did decide to contact Jen Montzingo herself to let her know that she was being discussed and gave her the opportunity to respond if she wanted. She graciously agreed to respond personally to many of the comments to our first item:

http://spiritswander.blogspot.com/2011/08/jen-montzingo-video-on-social-justice.html




Carolynn said...
"I think it's human nature to conform to your environment. I don't know Jen personally, but I think it would be incorrect to say that the pressures of being in LA and working around more gay people in the entertainment industry had nothing to do with her liberal social views."


Jen Montzingo: You're perceptive about the tendencies of human nature. My father was raised in the Free Methodist denomination, which I later worked in, which greatly informed my beliefs on this issue. The "Free" in "Free Methodist" pertains to 19th Century Christians who wanted to confront specific social ills: renting/selling church pews and slavery, to name a few. So, I come from a long line of people who are social activists! :)

Dana said...
"I have two things to say.

#1. I could see that Jen was losing her morals years ago. In my opinion, she chose trying to be popular to gain friends in LA instead of staying with God and the Word in the Bible. Standing for Jesus sometimes means sacrificing being seen as "cool" or "popular".

I have no concerns at all about Jeremy moving to California because he has proven that he has a much stronger relationship with Jesus than Jen had. Jeremy is not going to forget the principles in the Bible in an attempt to impress new friends. The greatest glory comes from living for Jesus. That's something Jeremy understands much better than Jen.

#2. I will try not to judge too harshly because she only spoke for a second, but based on the fact that she did write a blog entry and her past sentiments in the video about Zach and comments…..lets just say I think Jen has lost her morals in a lot of ways. It shows in how she shoves God into the background for popularity with her LA friends and it shows in the lack of appreciation she expresses for Matt Roloff.

Just like Peter Dinklage, or even more than Peter Dinklage, if Jen is talking about getting a role on a tv show personally I think it is classless for her not to pay tribute to Matt for all that he has done. Face it folks, Jen would not be getting a pay check in LA if it wasn't for Matt Roloff unless she was playing an leprechaun or an oompha loompa or something else demeaning.

If Jen does a longer interview or more promotion I would hope she would pay tribute to Matt, but I'm not holding my breath."


Jen Montzingo: In regards to Statement #1:
Wow! You really have a knack for observing what I have lost. If you "find my morals", would you kindly mail them back to me? I don't know how an intellectual, spirited discussion means I am now immoral. But I'll be sure to note your observations and don't worry-- I've never been too "cool.". That's something Jesus and I have in common. ;)

Also, I couldn't even begin to analyze your personal relationship with God as you have compared Jeremy's and mine. I wish I had your talents for assessing something deeply private and complex and then being able to compare them! :). You must've done very well on the SAT's!

In regards to Statement #2:
Of course, Matt Roloff has contributed a lot to the world, particularly in the area of people's perceptions of LP's. So, if you have ever wondered, here is my very public THANK YOU. I have never doubted his contributions. I also owe a world of thanks to every single person who is just out there living their lives as LP's with grace and integrity. You are also changing the public's perception.

I didn't know that until LPBW there were only demeaning acting jobs. In case you want to see his earlier, critically acclaimed mainstream work-- Peter Dinklage has been in the business for over 15 years. Also check out Ian Michael Smith's performance in the film, "Simon Birch." Brilliant!

If this is me shoving Jesus in the background, let me also say, I put my faith in His grace. And thanks again to Matt Roloff ;)


Paula Y said...
"Jen should read the Bible closer. By definition, a Christian must believe that the Bible is the Word of God. It states throughout the Bible that homosexuals are sinners. God intends for there to be one man and one woman.

In my opinion, Jen had a weak understanding of faith and God to begin with. Jeremy and the Roloffs are on much better path. Perhaps Jen should have went to hear John Mark Comer with Jeremy when she was in Oregon.

I will pray for her that she finds her way back to God."


Jen Montzingo:
That's why there's so much beauty in a multitude of denominations among Christians. As "iron sharpens iron" I have so much to learn from people of faith all around me. Also, as my biological parents live in Israel, I am blessed to learn from others across the globe!

Thank you for your prayers.


Thank you for your comments. You might consider reading "The Year of Living Biblically" by A.J. Jacobs. It chronicles one man's year-long journey to following the Bible as literally as possible. To be fruitful and multiply and not wear clothes of mixed fibers are just a couple of Biblical mandates. I'd be curious as to what you'd think.

Respected Biblical scholars have not even come to just one consensus on the issue of homosexuality in the Bible. One must read the Bible in historical and cultural context, as well as one whole book -- not just picking individual verses. Most New Testament letters were written to specific churches facing specific issues, for example.


Craw said...
"Jeremy should send Jen some of JMC's podcasts and what the Bible says. Go Jeremy!"


Jen Montzingo
Humbly speaking, John Mark Comer is not the authoritative Word of God or definitive voice of the Bible. There are many Christian leaders who would not prescribe to his teachings. No disrespect intended. I am not putting him down by any means but the church I spent most of my years in is a 150 year-old church housed on a university campus and doctrinally they do not align with JMC's teachings. I do not follow one person, I follow the life, work and teachings of Jesus Christ.


Rap541 said...
"The Roloffs and Jen having dwarfism is not a choice.

Limb lengthening corrects their malformed bodies.

Technically deformed people, per Leviticus, are not welcome in the house of God. Since its in the bible.... oh wait, Christians just pick and choose what rules they follow. Never mind. ;)"


Jen Montzingo:
Well stated. And Amen.


Lynn C said...
"Rap, then maybe Jen should follow the Roloffs lead and stop being vocal and isolating herself from a large group of people and maybe she could have got a reality show like the Roloffs."


Jen Montzingo:
Thankfully, and thanks to (again) Matt Roloff has already done a fabulous reality show. I am not aiming to steal his thunder. At this time, I am not interested in starring in my own reality show. Why try to copy something that was already done successfully? ;)

Rap541 said...
"PS - as to kissing ass to the gays.... funny how a)I have it on good authority that gay people may have been involved in the production of LPBW and b) Heh, the Roloffs sure don't stand up publically with their beliefs, now do they? Guess they don't wanna piss off the Hollywood queers and end their little gravy train. I mean, please point me to Matt Roloff and Amy Roloff taking a stand on homosexuality and saying they are against it because of their religion.

Oh bless us, no, they can't do that... after all they might lose the Hollywood queer money that they love sooo much, it shuts their mouths about their *deeply held* beliefs.

Someone please explain how Matt, who supposedly feels homosexuality is wrong, is standing up for that belief by *never speaking out*?


Jen Montzingo:
The only thing that I can speak to is that there were wildly talented homosexuals involved in all elements of LPBW-- from entry level to VP's at TLC.


Roxanne said...
"I like Jen and what she said but there is something I saw someone on another site say once and it could be a tough question.

If Jen is outspoken for gay rights and against gay bashing, why didn't she say anything when Jeremy was saying "f*ggot" to her? I remember some of Jeremy's comments in the National Enquirer.

Anybody else remember? Jeremy's comment about his soccer game and how he didn't want to sound like a gay bragging f*ggot?" That comment actually started out " hey jen, the soccer game was rad. i dont want to sound like gay bragging f..."

I'm just saying if Jen let that slide without saying anything, isn't that sort of wrong? I did a high school project on Maya Angelou and she says it's hard but when someone uses language like that you need to make it known in some way that it's not ok. If you aren't strong enough to actually tell them it's not ok, then you should get up and leave or say you have to be going. Eventually people will stop talking that way around you.


I'm not trying to be mean to Jen because I think she's a good person but itis something that occurred to me when I was watching her video."

Jen Montzingo:
This thoughtful observation deserves a thoughtful response that I will do in the next couple of days. Thank you for pointing out what could be construed as hypocritical and inauthentic. I will say, I did speak with Jeremy about this privately and he was very open to what I had to say. He was ignorant to using that loaded word so casually and did not come from a place that intended to hurt others. That was years ago - I'm not sure as to what his thoughts are now. But I promise to respond to this more further, if desired, and truly thank you for raising such a fair question.



Lisa Z said...
"Rap, Dana is right. Has Jen ever said thank you to Matt or given the Roloffs their due? Would it really hurt for her to pay homage to the Roloffs and want the Roloffs did.


I remember when Jen posted on Matt Roloff.com a long long time ago. She said she wished there was a show like LPBW when she was growing up. Why hasn't she said that lately?"

Jen Montzingo:
You're absolutely correct that I said that and I still believe the same thing. So I'll say it again: Thank you.


Carla said...
Rap, has Matt ever been asked that question in an interview?

I don't care. I stand by what I said. It is impossible to be a Christian and to be gay.


Jen Montzingo:
I'll stand by this. God is a God of the impossible. How is it any different than being a Christian and _____ (fill in the blank)?


Laura Lynch said...
If Jeremy R has recommended John Mark Comer's speeches to his friends, does this mean he has provided access to Jen M, but she refused to listen? If so, then that says a lot about Jen's own narrow-mindedness in refusing to listen when answers are being provided for her.


Jen Montzingo:
I am open to growing and learning from others but I do not find him doctrinally sound. He has gusto and passion though! To say that one man (JMC) provides all the answers is a pretty scary concept. Following one man blindly can lead to many problems. I do not want to disrespect JMC but I do not think all of his doctrine is that black and white. Thankfully, there are many denominations.


Valerie said...
I'll just throw this out there. She said it in the video, but she might be gay.

Like Jeremy's John Mark pastor has said, 9 times out of 10 people that are confused about their sexuality are confused because they had a bad relationship with their father. For a girl that would be with their mother? I think I've seen Jen say she was adopted. If she has issues like that it could be a possibility about why she is trying to make it seem ok when she knows God doesn't approve.


Jen Montzingo:
I am not gay. I am not confused about my own sexuality. But, nice psychological assessment! I too enjoy thinking deeply about things and can tell you do as well. :)


JoAnna said...
Jen is very confused imo. She should find solace in God and the Bible instead of power in Hollywood. You cannot be serving God and be helping destroy God's plan for human sexuality.


Jen Montzingo:
Thankfully, as one person I do not have the capability of destroying God's plan for human sexuality. Even if I wanted to. But I don't. God is a great big God and I am only 4'2". :)

==========================================================

Thanks again to Jen for taking the time to respond personally.

This was the original video that sparked the comments:


58 comments:

Rap541 said...

Nicely said, Jen.

(waits)

Roxanne said...

Jen, thank you very much for answering my question. I didn't think that maybe you did talk to Jeremy about it.

David said...

Well done, Jen.

I appreciate that you tackled all the tough questions. Others that shall not be named, could learn from your example...

Laura Lynch said...

Does Jeremy know your feelings about John Mark Comer?

Samantha P said...

Jen, I think you should listen to JMC in person before you form your opinion of him. Jeremy knows what an evening with JMC and Jesus followers is like at Solid Rock. The Lord is doing great things through JMC.

Vic Rattlehead said...

Laura & Samantha:

John Mark Comers' so called "opinions" are born out of his own ignorance hate and fear which he conveniently hides behind the veil of "religious freedom" to preach to the willfully ignorant.

Jesus isn't "doing good things" through JMC and his "church", from what I remember of my religious upbringing in the Catholic Church Jesus essentially detests any person who twists and perverts his message of love and acceptance to make money for themselves like JMC does.

The Solid Rock "Church"and it's "Pastor John Mark Comer are a blasphemous bad joke and an embarrassment to real Christianity.

Joanne said...

Spirits, What was the response from the Roloff's when you invited them to do a interview? Please share the email or tell us what they said when you talked to them?

Rap541 said...

Btw, in case we need more examples of little who were successful and out in the world, living with grace and dignity.... May I present Zelda Rubenstein?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelda_Rubinstein

Most of her significant work was in the eighties and nineties (when Matt Roloff was sampling cocaine per his book) and I imagine, if she were alive, she'd be getting bitched out for not kissing Matt's ass for granting her the career that she earned long before Matt decided he was king of the LPs.

Point - the role I remember her best at was that of Ginny Weedon, on Picket Fences. She played the sheriff's receptionist... not his dwarf receptionist.

merttaylor said...

Jen, I think you're amazing! I've followed these posts and can't believe the things people said to you. I think you're a phenomenal woman! Kepp up the good work and I hope to see more of you.

Vic Rattlehead said...

Rap:

Herve Villechaize who played Ricardo Montalban's sidekick (Before Montalban starter hawking "Fine Corinthian Leather" in Chrysler Ad's) Tattoo on Fantasy Island in the late 70's and early 80's was a real trailblazer more than 30 years before Matt even had a TV show and before TLC even existed as a network.

Christine said...

I respect Jen for handling the tough (unkind comments!) It shows character. Others could learn!

Nancy said...

I agree with you Merttaylor about Jen! I like her a lot.

Jerome said...

There are a lot of prominent little people actors, actresses, and successful individuals. Warwick Davis is one of my favorite little people actors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warwick_Davis

And here is someone who I think is more of a role model and better motivational speaker than Matt...Sean Stephenson. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Stephenson

I guess Sean and Warwick should be on their knees worshiping the ground that Matt walks on because without Matt they would be nothing...

Ellen said...

I don't know anyone that has listened to JMC in person that hasn't felt God at work. Jen should make it her mission to attend.

Rap541 said...

Ellen, why have you NOTHING to say about how the Roloffs allow underage drinking on their property despite John Mark Comer's view that breaking man's law is SIN?

Shouldn't the Roloffs make it their mission to not sin? Or at least to not take photos of the sinning and post it on the internet? ;)

Oh, but you're Christian so you apparently agree with Craw... "eff the law if its cool".

M said...

Great job jen!

Robert K said...

Rap, Are you aware that one of Matt Roloff's best friends from since High School is openly Gay? I don't think Matt is, or has ever been, anti gay.

Robert K said...

Rap, Zelda and Matt were friends. He also very much admires Patty Maloney. Why do you make it sound like he didn't respect Zelda?

Timothy said...

Robert K, if true, why hasn't Matt ever said that his friend is openly gay?

Does Matt urge his friend to pray the gay away?

If Matt isn't anti-gay (you do realize that most people do consider pray to be cured or else you're going to hell for eternity is an anti-gay attitude) why was his only comment about Jeremy's church, pride that Jeremy loves it?

Matt, Mr Not Anti Gay according to you, has no problem with Jeremy and now Molly supporting a Church that promotes gay rehab? Like Jen Montzingo said in her video, there are churches that don't preach that message. But Matt is happy that his kids support the most anti-gay, anti-acceptance church in Portland?

Christine said...

Robert K, you know what I think? I think you don't want Matt to be considered anti-gay because it's obvious to anyone rational that the Roloffs are full of contradictions and not qualified to be diversity speakers. They look extra bad since Jen is an example of someone with dwarfism that actually advocates for acceptance of ALL people and not just the one thing that affects her like the Roloffs.

Matt had Jeremy using the word "f*ggot". Never once did Matt apologize to anyone that was hurt by his son using hateful slurs. The reality is Matt turned anyone that was offended into the evil enemy for daring to say jeremy was wrong.

Then Matt gloats that Jeremy and Molly attend the gays are perverted and need to be cured.

Amy dodged the question when she was asked. Matt had chances to talk about how he feels about Jeremy loving the church that preaches that message. He hasn't said or done anything that shows that he disagrees with the message that Jeremy supports and spreads.

If Matt is really friends with someone gay (which I doubt) I feel sorry for them needing to listen to the anti gay attitudes of the Roloffs.

Jocelynn said...

I have to disagree with you Robert K and I agree with Christine and Timothy.

With all the evidence to the contrary, I find it very hard to believe that Matt isn't anti gay.

Austin said...

Oh get real Robert K. Even ignoring all the other stuff about the Jeremy's anti gay church, Matt's attitude was clear in the episode about the earring. What was Matt's exact words? Shaking his head in disappointment 'I'm not going to have a son...like that'?

What do you think that meant?

Then the Roloffs support Focus on the Family
Then the Roloffs support anti gay politicians.
Then the Roloffs support the gays are perverted and broken church.
And don't forget the Roloffs use gay slurs without apology.

But here you are trying to say Matt isn't anti gay? It's almost hilarious to even suggest.

Austin said...

Kudos to Jen for taking a stand! As one of those perverted and broken gays that is supposed to pray to Jesus to be cured as per Jeremy and JMC, I thank you for your response and your message in the video that you conveyed.

Allison said...

Agree or disagree with Jen Montzingo, she at least takes a stand for what she believes and puts herself out there.

Unlike the Roloffs!

Spiritswander said...

Hi Joanne,

I've explained it before, but you may have missed it. The Roloffs have not responded to the offer.

There was an interview agreed upon and all arranged between the Spiritswander site and Amy Roloff -- the details were outlined, that it would be all sorts of questions about various topics. Her representative agreed to it and expressed enthusiasm. All that remained was for the representative to consult with Amy about a good time for the interview. The next thing that happened was the representative apologizing, saying forget about it, we didn't need to hold up our end of the deal (which we already did -- promoted Amy's Charity Cruise and carried the links and banners) and the representative offered his apology again. It's not hard to figure out what really happened.

All I can say is that the Roloffs and their friends are well aware of our site and they are well aware of the offer we made regarding interviews. They know that they would not have control over the questions asked, and although we would intend for it to be a wide ranging interview covering many (not only controversial topics), but it would have to include some of the controversial topics that often are discussed. They have not accepted.

Matt has implemented a rule on all of the multiple sites that he controls that the name "Spiritswander" cannot be spoken/typed and does not permit any links to our site regardless of the story (even a harmless article about one of the Roloff kids making an all star team).

I also do know that close friends of the Roloffs in the Hillsboro area have said that that Matt has told them that they are not permitted speak to our site.

Our offer has been made. The Roloffs know about it. They have not accepted and they have made their feelings towards our site clear.

There's no reason to push it any further than that.

Ginna said...

I am horrified by the hateful and disgusting things being said about gay people. And once again by people that refer to themselves as christians. What part of the Bible does it say you can judge other people. God is my only judge. If gay is unnatural, then why does it appear in nature? Chinstrap penguins are a fine example, look it up. The idea that anyone would think that 9 out of 10 gay people were sexually abused or didn't get hugged enough by daddy, makes me concerned for that persons gene pool. But what's curious is the fact that just as many straight people didn't have a good relationship with their dads or got molested. So why aren't they gay? Do people not have enough to do in their own lives, that they feel the need to think about what other people do in their own bedrooms? Now, in regards to the Roloffs, while its sad they choose to remain close minded, hateful (if in fact that is the case), and ignorant, it is also their right to have those opinions. And while I say they have the right to their opinions, I don't believe they nor anyone else has the right to spead hate, lies, and intolerance. I don't care what religion you choose for yourself. Here in America, there is that little blurb in the Constitution...now what was that called...oh yeah...freedom of religion. So why should ANYONE be forced to live by someone elses religious beliefs?

Ginna said...

one more thing. I am not really concerned by their children's ignorance (again, if that is the case) simply because most kids learn that kind of hate from significant members in their families. But once they have had a good chunk of time on the own, I wouldn't be one bit surprised that they eventually change their point of view for a couple of reasons 1) they end up realizing gay people are no different 2) they read the bible finally and realize that there are a number of "Gods laws" that are beyond belief. For example, get a good price for your daughter when you sell her. And don't eat shellfish. Oh and don't eat sausage. 3) and finally, they are out from under their parents and finally can form opinions of their own. Its the adults that teach their kids hate, in the name of religion.

Rap541 said...

Robert K - so to correct, since you're claiming insider info (and look, another person who knows the Roloffs but who won't give any verifiable info) Matt would not expect Zelda Rubenstein to thank him for lifting her up and out of demeaning roles in Hollywood?

But Peter Dinklage - whose acting career spans a similar time frame - does owe Matt a public nod?

Who in the dwarf is and isn't required to kiss Matt's ass and give Matt credit for their achievements?

As for Matt's long time gay friend.... Yes, I would love to know what Matt's long time gay friend thinks of Matt's children (and Matt at times) attending a church where the message is "gays need to be cured".

Or hey, what about endorsing Bruce Starr?

And Robert K - its been said before and can be said again. There's nothing stopping *Matt* from speaking about his long term gay friend who he embraces and encourages his family to know.

I know *why* Matt never speaks about his gay friends or on his views about homosexuality... but his actions, or rather his lack of actions, speak louder than words.

If you have a moment to ask Matt, Robert K - please also ask him if Peter Dinklage needs to say "Matt Roloff did everything, I am nothing without him" at the Emmy's this year to give Matt his proper respect and what members of the dwarf community *aren't* required to say "I was dirt before Matt Roloff, he lifted me up"?

Samantha P said...

Ginna, your comments about John Mark are very ignorant and undeserved. He is none of those things you described.

I urge you to listen, pay close attention to 9:15

"You need healing, which is why study after study is showing 9 times out of 10, not always, that those struggling with homosexuality or homosexuals...it goes back to a bad relationship with their father or no relationship with their father. Either a father who was abusive or critical or distant or harsh or a father that was nowhere...a man who was raised by a woman or whatever the story might be. It simply means you need healing. You need a father. You need God to step in and become your father." -- John Mark Comer

Neither John Mark or Jer are hateful. There is no need to be concerned for their gene pool. Jer is also not a child. He knows what he believes. Jer attends John Mark gatherings more than his parents. They have nothing to do with his beliefs.

Anonymous said...

So what about lesbians?

Do they need a father too?

Rap541 said...

Jer is also not a child. He knows what he believes. Jer attends John Mark gatherings more than his parents. They have nothing to do with his beliefs.

Samantha P - Matt and Amy Roloff both support Jeremy Roloff with money from their diversity talks. Jeremy is an adult who lives at home and is supported monetarily by his parents. He lives a life of leisure from the money Matt and Amy earn from their diversity business. Their money gives him the free time to support a church that supports exclusion.

Matt and Amy also attend this church, I'm pretty sure you're one of the ones who have proudly spouted off how awesome it is. Both Matt and Amy have mentioned attending services there. Are you saying Matt and Amy don't support the message of Solid Rock Church?

Cynthia said...

I don't remember seeing Jen on LPBW but I like what I hear in the video. Too bad the Roloffs aren't that direct.

Samantha P said...

Rap, that's not what I'm saying. Trust me, I know Jer's parents have attended services at Solid Rock. Jer's grandparents have attended too.

Ginna said Jer's support of John Mark is because he's not responsible and was only following his parents. My point was that isn't the reason. It's because Jer can feel the Holy Spirit at work when he goes to Solid Rock and when he listens to John Mark Comer.

Podge/Rodge groupie said...

Jen, thank you so much for taking the time to answer the judgements and opinions expressed by regular members of this blog. I applaud the fact you obviously think for yourself. The explanations and/or defense of your personal beliefs, while certainly not necessary, is an action you undertook willingly and without reserve. "Again, thank you.
As I write this, the following people whose comments you chose to answer or make remarks to, have not made any further entries in appreciation, answer or (if I can use the term) rebuttal to your solidly grounded and well-thought replies. They are:
Carolynn
Dana
Anne
Paula Y
Craw
Lynne C
Lisa Z
Carla
Joanna

I'm not calling anyone out here, I'm simply noting that we've seen no further entries by the above-mentioned. And some of them didn't make remarks to the preceding under-age drinking entry either.
It is my hope they apply to make the trip to the back kitchen of Ballydung Manor and be interviewed by my heroes. I'm sure it would be a religious education they would not soon forget.

Vic Rattlehead said...

Samantha P:

Those so called "studies" were carried out by organizations like Focus On The Family The American Family Association and various other highly biased anti-gay organizations.

None of those studies have ever been peer reviewed (meaning: got looked at by real scientists not just ones under the employ of above mentioned groups)because organizations like FOF AFA and the rest of them know that if they allowed any actual scientists physiologists and sociologists to examine their hypotheses methods and results those "studies" would be laughed and and labeled "Garbage Science" which is exactly what they are.

The American Psychological Society declassified homosexuality as a "mental illness" in the 70's and modern science is extremely close to proving that homosexuality in humans is as normal and natural as having dark hair or dark eyes thanks to DNA research.

Those scientific and empirical facts totally invalidate anything that JMC has to say about this issue.

Rap541 said...

Samantha, I am commenting on what you are saying. I'm sure Jeremy chooses to have a good old time at Solid Rock and look down his nose on non Christians and embrace a philosophy of exclusion. No one is saying Jeremy doesn't have the right to treat gays as less per his religion. And yes, Samantha, telling people they are going to hell unless they change for you is a philosphy of exclusion and it is treating non Christians as less.

The issue is that Jeremy, while twenty one and legally adult, is completely and entirely dependant on his mommy and daddy for his daily needs. He doesn't work. Does he pay rent? No. Who pays his car insurance, for his cell phone, his food, his soccer practices, his fun?

His mom and dad.

And let me explain again, Samantha, where Mom and Dad Roloff's money comes from. From their diversity speeches. Where they tell people to accept the differences in others and embrace them. Their diversity money funds Jeremy's evenings at Solid Rock Church where he learns to exclude others and judge who is and isn't going to hell. So the diversity money funds Jeremy's undiverse lifestyle.

Parents who say, have a serious issue over their adult child's choices, don't have to allow their adult child to mooch off them. The Roloffs not only continue to financially support Jeremy, they don't say boo, and they do attend his church. I think, judging by Matt and Amy's remarks on Jeremy and Solid Rock Church, that they aren't having a lot of angst or disagreement with what Jeremy learns there.

Diversity speakers supporting exclusion, yay!

Rap541 said...

Oh and Samantha P - I know I'm beating a dead horse but really, its pretty clear that Jeremy doesn't follow John Mark Comer's views. We've got photographic evidence of him breaking man's law in his garage by providing alcohol and a place to drink to his underage friends....

I guess it was more fun to get trashed with friends than stand up for Jesus, huh? And since when you're Christian, you can *break the law* and just say "whoopsie Jesus" well... tell me, does Jeremy have to do anything other than look down on gays to be an extraordinary Christian?

Because he sure doesn't have to *not sin*.

Greg said...

Well said Jen and great post Rap at 5:03pm

Paula Y said...

@Podge Rodge Groupie, I'm here. I read her response. I don't see any point in continuing to argue. She is lost. All that I can do for her is pray show her the error of her ways. You cannot promote the homosexual lifestyle and say that you are are serving God.

Rachel said...

Way to go Jen. I admire her for taking on the tough responses.

Rap541 said...

Paula Y - Are the Roloffs serving God by serving alcohol to underage kids?

Or are you another Christian pointing fingers over "the homosexual lifestyle" and sitting silent over the underage drinking as just something great Christians do?

Podge/Rodge groupie said...

@Paula Y, thank you. From your lack of an entry in the drinking/partying blog item, I understand fully if you don't feel there's any point to argue that Jeremy is lost, we show pray and show him the error of his ways. It's a given, as you've stated about Jen, that you cannot promote the drunken, law breaking contribution-to-delinquent-minor lifestyle AND say you are serving God. That certainly is fair and equitable, Paula Y.

Podge/Rodge groupie said...

Rap541: I don't know what happened, but my blog entry got thrown out on an error. I had mine done before yours was. No fair! Foul! Foul! I'm just trying to see things in the same light. Oh well.

Ginna said...

Firstly, I never said Jer wasn't responsible for what he says or does. I simply said most kids (and young adults for those that need to be technical) form their original life "belief system". As people age their views may change as they experience life without being told what to believe like most kids are taught by their parents. No one is born with hate. Hate is taught. And yes, I find what john mark says as hog wash basically. There are no LEGIT scientific studies to prove his theories. The data collected is contaminated with religious bias. That's not a true "study". True studies don't allow for the data to be filtered thru the data collectors personal religious belief system. Again I say, who says anyone has the right to force anyone else to live by others religious beliefs. I am not knocking the Roloffs since I don't personally know them. They have the right to believe what they want as well as you that is reading this. and again I ask, when did God come down and assign anyone of you (and myself for that matter) to be the judge?

Rap541 said...

No problem, Podge. Perhaps if more people start asking the question, some of these folks will start to understand why they're being called hypocrits.

Its really laughable how certain people almost stampeded in the rush to let Jen Montzingo exactly how she's a bad Christian (Judging apparently *isn't* nasty and unChristian when you're rightiously calling out someone for not being Christian to your standards) but funny....

None of these proud, judgemental Christians want to say *anything* about the illegal underage drinking in the Roloff garage. Except, to be fair, for Craw, who dismissed it as unimportant despite it being defined as a sin by the illustrious John Mark Comer.

Ginna said...

I need to clarify a statement. I was saying that most kids form their original life belief system. What I neglected to add there was ...they form their original belief system based off what their parents or other significant members of their familyhave taught. Would Jer, Molly, Jacob, and zach have attended church if their parents hadn't begun taking them as small children? Unlikely, I am not saying they wouldn't have. I am saying that its highly unlikely for a child to go to church unless they have been exposed to it.

Samantha...allow me to cut and paste from your post..."Ginna said Jer's support of John Mark is because he's not responsible and was only following his parents. My point was that isn't the reason."

This is the problem I have with so called Christians. They take what you say, then retranslate it to something that was not said. Reread my first post, the one you made your statement about. Was John Mark mentioned in it? Nope. John Mark was first typed by my fingers in my 8:01pm post. Not in the 6:20am post.

As far as Paula, here's a quote from you..."You cannot promote the homosexual lifestyle and say that you are are serving God.". I would love for you to point out the chapter and verse of that "rule". To save me time, and you, there isn't one. But it wouldn't be the first time a Christian misrepresented God and the bible. I shouldn't be surprised by it considering how Christianity came to be.

Podge/Rodge groupie said...

Rap, is that word spelled correctly? It looks like "illustrious" shouldn't it be "delustrious" or "delusionist"? Just curious.

Val Van De Wall wrote, “When a person takes responsibility
for their life and the results they are obtaining, they will cease to blame others as the
cause of their results. Since you cannot change other people, blame is inappropriate.
Blaming others causes a person to remain bound in a prison of their own making. When
you take responsibility, blame is eliminated and you are free to grow.”

Dr. Rollo May, a distinguished psychiatrist, once wrote, “The opposite of courage in our
society is not cowardice, it is conformity.” It requires great courage to take responsibility
for your life. It’s so much easier to blame someone else or something outside of you.

Just a couple thoughts, bloggers. I feel you INTEND everything in your life. Here's another great one:

At times, it might even be appealing to contemplate having another person take on
our responsibilities for us. We could even trick ourselves into believing that by doing this,
we would be more free to play, have fun and do the things we wanted. Without serious
thought, it might never enter our mind that exactly the opposite would happen. When
you permit others to take on your responsibilities, yo u become dependent on them.

Sound familiar?

Peter Lane said...

Jen Montzingo - Thank you. Much respect for several reasons.

Craw said...

I don't know what to say. I hope Jen is "just saying" that she spoke to Jeremy over his Myspace comment on her page only because she wants to look good for the PC types and her new gay friends.

Who wants to have a friend that would lecture them over a comment like Jer's "not to be a gay bragging f*ggot but I scored 4 goals". People are too sensitive. You shouldn't need to walk on egg shells around friends.

As for John Mark Comer, he's one of the best and coolest speakers I've heard at Church. I can see why Jeremy likes him so much.

Rap541 said...

Podge, forgive me, I was using sarcasm :)

Rap541 said...

Craw, stop piddling around.

Are you calling Jen a liar? Per Jen, Jeremy was, at the time, open to what she had to say... as a *Christian*, wasn't he *wrong* to be open to not namecalling?

After all, Jesus loves it when you hurt people with words, right?

Craw, please do yourself a favor and seriously sit down with a pastor. Even John Mark Comer doesn't endorse the comments Jeremy was making and if you seriously consider yourself a Christian, then it's time you began to understand that your job as a Christian isn't to snot off how you're better and how everyone is a nasty piece of crap if they disagree with your views - your job as a Christian is to bring people to Christ.

And all you're doing here, with your hate and namecalling and childish, ignorant arrogance, is turning people away from God.

Podge/Rodge groupie said...

Rap541, it is I missed the point. I was attempting to be more accurate. I was concerned that some of the regular bloggers who shield their lack of intelligence in holier-than-thou pedestal standing arrogance and conceit might totally disregard it. Or, at the very worst, actually believe you were being respectively supportive of that person whom I tried to more accurately portray. Would it be too much to ask of some of the regulars to this blog, "When was the last time you had a conscious thought of your own?", or would that go just as un-heeded as actions of Roloff family members who get caught doing things that don't support their "philosophy". "There is more to Heaven and Earth, Horatio............"

Mike P. said...

@Craw 5:31PM:

"F*ggot" and "n*gger" are the same word. Think about it. Think particularly of the cruelty and violence associated with them.

To say that those who object to them are "too sensitive" betrays an ignorance--maybe even a stupidity--of jaw-dropping proportion.

More and more, the Roloff defenders succeed in making the Roloffs supremely unattractive.

Ginna said...

Craw, too sensitive? People are too sensitive? I'm sorry, when was the last time you watched your best friend die from a baseball bat to the head while being called a f*ggot? When was the last time you had a nephew commit suicide because he couldn't take the verbal abuse from people who claimed to be christians calling him a f*ggot? When was the last time you walked down the street only to have people drive by screaming dyke at you? Words have power. That's why words are used in propaganda. Propaganda of hate is as good as a weapon as anything else. Propaganda led to the holocaust. I really just don't believe God would be ok with anyone hurting someone intentionally, even with just words. I just don't believe God would say "oh they are being to sensitive".

Vic Rattlehead said...

Craw:

If anyone deserves a good tongue lashing it's Jeremy.

I have to wonder how Jeremy would react if someone made fun of him for being the low class white trash that he is?

He's certainly not the type of person who would "stand up for himself" or throw a punch on his own because he is a coward who is only "brave" when surrounded with morons like Mueller so I'd suspect that he would just run away to mommy and daddy who would then coddle and tell him how "special" and "important" he is just like they've been doing all his life.

BeckyM said...

TLC cancels Khate Gosselin - more money-ho's getting the pink slip. Thank GOD for those poor kids - when the family court judge allowed them to work including being pulled repeatedly out of school, the children hiding their own faces with their jackets from the paparazzi and two got expelled from their private Christian school. Sound FAMILIAR!?

Heidi Montag and Spencer Pratt stated in a recent interview (to get more of their 10 minutes of fame): "That was the big thing I didn’t get: Reality TV is not a career. Anyone who says, ‘Oh, you can have a career in reality’—that is a lie.'"

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/31/heidi-montag-spencer-pratt-on-plastic-surgery-the-hills-reality-tv.html

JMO There will be professional papers written about these fame-hos as the years go by and more and more is revealed about what a self-destructive path reality television is for people seeking fame and attention.

Jocelynn said...

Becky, it sounds like TLC is doing the exact same thing with Kate Gosselin as they did with the Roloffs. Cancelled the show, but there will be periodic "update specials".

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/kate-plus-eight-kate-gosselin-223140

The final episode of Kate + 8 will air Sept. 12. From there, the network will check in with the reality TV star-turned-tabloid staple and her family with periodic specials.

BeckyM said...

JMO Jocelynn but when the specials don't pull in ratings either they will be gone.

The Gosselin kids are under contract until Feb. 2012. And I DOUBT, Jon will let it be renewed.

Khate was the number one search for 2 days on the Internet, yet her show STILL bombed - ratings on par with the LPBW before it was yanked.

With Matt's fake health scare being a high search on the Internet it generated a bit higher ratings, but still not enough to "save the show" on the part of TLC.

Internet interest in seeing a train wreck seldom translates to great ratings that are extended over time.

I also think the Roloff specials will bomb. They are old news. Nothing interesting has happened - and not enough time has passed to make it a retrospect.